body and interior Friend Wants To Buy A 2002 - Not Sure About The Interior

[flyingjolly]

Hi guys,

 

a friend of mine wants to buy that car: http://home.mobile.de/AGYOUNGTIMER#des_188087952

The interior looks strange to me. There's blue doorcards in the rear and some woodgrain doorcards in the front? Are those L-doorcards? Do they even belong into that car?

 

Thanks for your help!

[cj]

Looks like Lux door cards and rear seat with the armrest.

Edited December 30, 2013 by cj

[Conserv]

Looks like Lux door cards and rear seat with the armrest.

+1

The front and rear seats and the front door cards were swapped out of a newer Lux car. The Lux package was first offered in 1974? -- help me out here on the date, I'm not so good with these Euro options! The dash, on the other hand, is the older style with chrome trim across the front. Certainly for U.S. models, that dashboard disappeared around 1968. Did it continue in Europe through December 1970, the purported date of this car?

Steve

[NickVyse]

dashboard disappeared around 1968. Did it continue in Europe through December 1970, the purported date of this car?

Steve

 

yep, correct dash for a euro '70. All early 02s in chamonix I've seen had black door cards all round, so I suspect even the rear blue and black are incorrect, and as they said, seats and front door cards are square tail Lux items. Just a haggling point though IMO. Shame they put the side rubbing strips on - but they're so wonky you might find they're glued and not drilled with the correct trim fixing (which would be a pain to return to stock). I wonder if they upgraded the alternator to cope with those spot lights!

[Conserv]

Thank you, Nick.

I owned a '70 Chamonix U.S. model back in the day (manufactured September 1969). I bought it at 18,000 miles from the first owner and it did have a navy vinyl interior (door cards navy with black trim at tops), which was most certainly the original interior. What I saw here in the U.S. -- and it is by no means statistical -- was Chamonix with black interior on very early cars yielding to Chamonix with navy on the later round taillight cars. Was it a Hoffman Motors "thing"? I have no idea!

Regards,

Steve

Edited January 5, 2014 by Conserv

[flyingjolly]

Thank your for your help, i suspected something like that.

Those lights sure are a bit on the heavy side, i suspect with all on, the lights go as dim as just the headlights

We're going to take a look at the car on saturday.

[Mike Self]

Re Chamonix exteriors and dark blue interiors.  Almost all (or perhaps all) the '69s came that way, even though IIRC the catalog stated black interior with the Chamonix exterior.  The story I heard (can't verify, but I think Michel Poteau told me, and he was very knowledgeable about 2002 arcania) was that the factory had a bunch of dark blue material that was meant for NK sedans.  When NK sales slumped due to the 1602/2002 introduction, the factory, thrifty souls that they were, used the surplus blue vinyl to create 2002 interiors until they ran out.

 

At least some 70s were built with blue interiors; I've seen 'em.  

 

mike

Edited December 31, 2013 by mike

[flyingjolly]

as a small update: my friend bought the car. A bit too expensive for my taste, but he wanted it so he bought it. 

 

 

The side rubbing strips are drilled like the later standards were, thanks for that input Nick, i wouldn't have noticed it. The seller said he was told the car got new doors a few years ago and these had the holes drilled for the rubbing strips. Plus the previous owner reportedly thought the car would look better with those, like a better fit for the Kamei front.

In the ad it said something like the car was treated with wax for conservation. Turned out they flooded the whole car with it from front to back, even the inside of the engine bay and the underside of the hood, yet it still has a few rust issues.

 

Thanks for your help. 

[Conserv]

Re 

At least some 70s were built with blue interiors; I've seen 'em.  

 

mike

Thanks, Mike,

And I'd go further than that to suggest that after '69, navy blue became the norm for U.S. Chamonix car interiors and black became the exception. Both the September '73 Farben und Polster brochure and the February '75 Farben Polster brochure show navy blue as the 'factory recommended' color for Chamonix exteriors (just as your '69 catalog showed black as the 'factory recommended' interior for earlier Chamonix cars).

Regards,

Steve

[Hans]

Nice rack!

[LarsAlpina]

Thanks, Mike,

And I'd go further than that to suggest that after '69, navy blue became the norm for U.S. Chamonix car interiors and black became the exception. Both the September '73 Farben und Polster brochure and the February '75 Farben Polster brochure show navy blue as the 'factory recommended' color for Chamonix exteriors (just as your '69 catalog showed black as the 'factory recommended' interior for earlier Chamonix cars).

Regards,

Steve

 

Steve,

 

the 1969 german "Farb- und Polsterkombinationen" brochure I have does not recommend black for chamonix cars. All further info also for Germany and most other EURO countries - for US I would assume that there were no major differences but I do not know for sure.

 

For an interior made from tissue it recommends S47/39. Code 47 is blue tissue for the middle (first style with nearly no ribs) and code 39 is plain blue Skai vinyl for the sides. A fully vinyl interior was K43/39 with code 43 standing for the rectangular embossed blue Flechtnarbe vinyl in the middle.

 

With that the door cards came in the first variant with black above and blue below the chrome stripes.

 

 

If you look at the cards in rooms with not that good lighting they´re sometimes not to be distinguished from the complete black ones on first sight.

 

 

FWIK the number of available interior and exterior colours for 02 was changed with Werksferien 1968 along with the facelift of the 4-door NKs (became "Modell 69" then). From my old paper parts catalogues I can read that e.g. for black doorcards BMW distinguishes between "black-black" and "black-black new" both oldest type with chrome stripes. Application list tells older "black-black" are suitable for some 2002 (production started in January 1968) but not for 2002TI (production started in September 1968). So my conclusion is:

- Cars produced pre August 1968 - for US appr. the first 1500-2000 2002s and appr. the first 4500-5000 1600-2s delivered - still had the old colour scheme for interior and exterior. For the interior e.g. different greys and different browns were available, for the exterior you could´ve e.g. still chosen tampico.

- All later cars pre-71 (except options like leather or red vinyl that seem to have been still available on special order) came with brown (only one type), black or blue for the interior. Tissue for black interior maybe available in grey and black - have never seen first-type black tissue in any original car but is nowadays available as a reproduction from BMW Classic.

 

Dashboard:

Euro cars had the 3-piece chrome dashboard until first facelift in summer 1971. 71-73 is two-piece dash with turn-lights swith still on the wrong side. From 73 until the end one-piece dash.

I´m not sure when the change was made but later pre-71 US cars had a fourth special dash type that looked very similar to the 71-73 two-piece one but is still based on the earliest 3-piece chrome dash with just some more upholstery parts added because of US interior safety regulations.

 

Best regards, Lars.

Edited January 9, 2014 by LarsAlpina

[Conserv]

Lars,

It's always great to hear your perspective on these matters. Thank you.

It also seems that Hoffman Motors, as the sole U.S. distributor for BMW, measurably reduced the choices available for U.S.-bound cars, making the Skai (later, "leatherette") upholstery a mandatory option and seemingly ignoring certain exterior colors.

Regards,

Steve

[LarsAlpina]

Steve,

 

Skai is a trademark and product name from Konrad Hornschuch AG. Leatherette is a generic term for material of that kind.

 

Best regards, Lars.