history and reference Questions About Car On Ebay

[codigoRojo]

Sorry if this question belongs in the market section. I don't think too many folks read the ebay section, so thought I'd post here.

 

Per the ebay "marketplace forum" section, there's a cool 68 2002 listed by some fancy classic car dealer in the midwest. I love the early models, so I checked it out. It looks beautiful but some things popped into my mind. I noticed the color sticker says manila, which the car obviously isn't. Makes one stop and wonder, what is the deal with this car. So it was restored, with a color change? Mileage is likely not 20k either then. In the photos there's a 1600 owner's manual. Probably just something someone got at a garage sale or on ebay. 

 

I'm no history expert, but did they even make manila 2002s or were only 1600s manila? The old color chart in the FAQs is gone now, so I can't tell. The car's paint looks like ceylon to me. I've never seen one, so is it a rare color? I like it persosnally. The vin looks up as a 68 2002.

 

Whatever the deal is with this car, it looks awesome, and probably worth $20k-ish kind of money.

 

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/145793-bmw-2002-one-of-the-earliest-2002s-ever-produced-1968-bmw-2002/

 

 

[bcarey]

That is a pretty car! Unless I'm mistaken, the rear 2002 badge looks to be on the wrong side.

[Conserv]

This car sold, I believe, out of the Manheim Auction in Manheim, PA, perhaps a year ago. There was a thread, maybe two, on it at the time. I believe it sold for $8K-ish. It's been marketed for almost as long; I believe it began at something like $27K. It's certainly a nice and interesting car. It's certainly not mint. I seem to recall it had only two owners prior to the auction. The first owner may have been from Lebanon, PA. It certainly has had a color change -- Manilla was available on '02's (and I don't believe there were 2002 versus 1600-2 color options back then).

Search is your friend (try with some of my words, such as Manheim and PA, or Pennsylvania).

Steve

EDIT: Easier to find than anticipated: http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/137481-save-this-2002-in-pafor-a-steal/?hl=manheim%20auction

Edited October 8, 2013 by Conserv

[Mike Self]

A few comments....too bad they went to all the trouble of doing such a nice paint job and didn't do it in the original Manila.  Suspect this might have been an overseas delivery car as in '68 and '69 US spec cars imported by Hoffman were onlyl available in Granada, Chamoinx, Nevada, Polaris and Baikal.  However US spec 02s have been reported in other colors.  A quick e-mail to BMW Classic with the VIN would tell where the car was originally delivered.  The fact that is has a clock vs tach may also indicate an overseas ordered/delivered car (military, diplomatic/tourist)

 

Interior appears original--looks just like my '69, less the headrests.  Wide front seats, too (also original).  Original smooth center on steering wheel (unique to the '68s) and spaghetti seat belts.  However the W-shaped plastic holder for the buckles that clips to the e-brake handle is missing. 

 

Air cleaner is the wrong color (should be either black or dark grey--hard to tell on an early car like this one) but the lid is different from the later 1 bbl cars--and that's the correct one.  Other than the owners manual, the literature (and blue pouch) matches what came with my '69.  Windshield washer pump (pix #45) is an aftermarket one sheet metal screwed to the fender well--kinda tacky on a $20k car.  So is the overspray on the upper strut bearings and the windshield washer nozzles.

 

Hubcaps themselves should be frosted to match the trim rings.  These two piece wheel covers are correct for '68s and some early '69s.

 

Front fenders have been replaced--note visible seam above the headlights--was leaded in from the factory.  And while the embossed front hood trim is correct for these really early 2002s, they weren't painted in black as shown in the picture.  I have a Popular Science road test article from April 1968 showing an early '02 (factory press pool car) with the embossed trim--not painted.

 

Trunk lid torsion bars are from a later car--this early a car should have the ones with little plastic caps on the ends of the torsion bars.  Changeover wasn't until 1664761.  And as was pointed out, the 2002 emblem is on the wrong side on the rear panel.  And the exhaust pipe/rear muffler doesn't appear to be a factory unit--note wrinkles in the tailpipe where it bends around to its exit point.

 

 

Hate to be picky on such a pretty car, but as they say "the devil's in the details" and on a $20k car the details should be correct, as should the color--looks like an old VW "Champagne Edition" gold.

 

mike

[Conserv]

nt

Edited April 24, 2014 by Conserv

[Conserv]

...And while the embossed front hood trim is correct for these really early 2002s, they weren't painted in black as shown in the picture. I have a Popular Science road test article from April 1968 showing an early '02 (factory press pool car) with the embossed trim--not painted.

Mike,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but another thread got me thinking about the embossed hood trim. First, as you've said many times, '68 2002s are rare as hen's teeth in the U.S. I probably haven't seen a bona fide '68, in person, in 40 years. I do believe I've seen, however, black-painted embossing on front hood trim -- besides on the '68 that is/was the subject of this thread. Original? I can't say. But there is an August '68 Motor Trend ad that shows a 1600 and a 2002, and the 2002 (perhaps that Polaris sunroof example used in U.S. road tests) may have black-painted embossing -- unless it's just the lighting, which is conceivable.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/132236-what-is-the-difference-between/?hl=embossed+hood+trim#entry50837

And, certainly, an August '68 factory brochure shows black-painted embossing (photo below). Brochure example only? Very very early only? I must say it visually makes some sense on the 2002 as it echoes the black and aluminum front grilles.

I don't know if any U.S. 2002's were delivered to customers this way, but BMW was certainly thinking about it. I believe we need more data points!

Regards,

Steve

Edited November 2, 2014 by Conserv

[jgerock]

My 69 2002 came to me with the embossed nose trim - unpainted inside the indented areas.  

[Conserv]

My 69 2002 came to me with the embossed nose trim - unpainted inside the indented areas.

Thanks, Jim! The combination of the '68 factory brochure and the '68 car that is/was the subject of this thread just got me thinking about why and where the black painting idea originated. The owner of the originally-Manilla car above was sufficiently un-concerned with originality to effect a complete color change. Yet they painted the embossing, or were they re-painting the embossing? Did someone see it in a brochure -- such as the one above? Or did the factory actually produce examples? I would not expect it on a 1600 as the black-and-aluminum look doesn't reflect anything happening design-wise on the 1600. But just as the early 2002 black grill slats were painted, a dash of black paint on the embossing emphasized the higher-end, more powerful model.

No answers here. Just wondering!

Regards,

Steve

Edited April 25, 2014 by Conserv