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73 Tii Non-Starting-Fuel Pooling Issue


achman

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achman said: "Standard procedure is turning ignition on, letting fuel pump run for a good 10 seconds, and then cranking until it starts. I don't touch the gas when cold, and it usually starts fine when cold."

 

I've always cranked my tii immediately upon turning on the ignition, and it started easily (it's not running right now, for other reasons). I use the manual CS switch, and it always started within a second or two of cranking the engine. Based on my experience, I suspect you have a leaking CSV due to the fuel pooling in the intake issue. Just my $.02 worth...

 

Jerry

 

I botched the editing earlier, and don't seem to be able to make this look right, sorry folks.

Edited by JerryC

Jerry

no bimmer, for now

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Thanks for the info. Hopefully tomorrow ill be able to sort it out...and isolate the issue.

1973 2002Tii Agave "Gerta"-----1972 2002Tii Verona project-----------2003 Porsche 911 X51-------2016 FIAT Abarth--------2003 Porsche Boxster----------2005 Honda Element

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Pulled the cold start valve and aimed it into clear container. Wife turned ignition on and valve immediately sprayed a nice amount of gas into container. I am assuming this means the valve is stuck open or faulty. It sprayed before engine was cranking. So at the least, I need to replace valve correct? As far as the relay is concerned I am not a genius with electricity but I am going to see if I can see if that is working also.

I am assuming this faulty valve would be the reason the car is very hard to start when hot.

1973 2002Tii Agave "Gerta"-----1972 2002Tii Verona project-----------2003 Porsche 911 X51-------2016 FIAT Abarth--------2003 Porsche Boxster----------2005 Honda Element

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What happens if I just unplug the CSV? The car actually started very easily without the CSV installed, but I I just unplug it for now does that ruin anything? Seems like it would just not inject any fuel yes?

Oh wait if it is faulty and stuck open then that won't do anything correct?

1973 2002Tii Agave "Gerta"-----1972 2002Tii Verona project-----------2003 Porsche 911 X51-------2016 FIAT Abarth--------2003 Porsche Boxster----------2005 Honda Element

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What happens if I just unplug the CSV? The car actually started very easily without the CSV installed, but I I just unplug it for now does that ruin anything? Seems like it would just not inject any fuel yes?

Oh wait if it is faulty and stuck open then that won't do anything correct?

You may certainly leave it unplugged as long as it's not spraying at that point.

 

Do you mean it sprays continuously with the ignition on? The circuit is such that normal operation is about a 1 second quirt regardless of temperature.

 

And go here and download/read the manual and video :)  http://thetiiregister.com/kb/59

 

GL,

Edited by ray_koke

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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It sprays continuously when the ignition is turned on...and also while the engine is running.

I punched a small hole in some dense packing foam, and ran the valve through it and into a bottle (to hold down the fumes) and started the engine. It started immediately (not very often it does that) and ran fine, but the gas kept spraying for at least 5-8 seconds, until I shut off the engine. Because it won't stop spraying I am assuming the valve is bad regardless of the relay, yes? Or is the relay just not shutting off the valve? My bet is on the valve as the car has always driven fine after it is started, and if the relay were faulty it would never run correctly as there would always be way way too much gas being thrown through the valve...

1973 2002Tii Agave "Gerta"-----1972 2002Tii Verona project-----------2003 Porsche 911 X51-------2016 FIAT Abarth--------2003 Porsche Boxster----------2005 Honda Element

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If you remove the electrical connection from the CSV does it quit spraying? Answer yes, check the timer. Because that is what the timer does, shuts off the electric.

"90% of your carb problems are in the ignition, Mike."

1972 2000tii Touring #3422489

1972 2002tii with A4 system #2761680

FAQ member #5

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Nope, if I unplug it, it keeps on spraying. It also keeps spraying if it is plugged in. So I am assuming it is the CSV.

1973 2002Tii Agave "Gerta"-----1972 2002Tii Verona project-----------2003 Porsche 911 X51-------2016 FIAT Abarth--------2003 Porsche Boxster----------2005 Honda Element

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Nope, if I unplug it, it keeps on spraying. It also keeps spraying if it is plugged in. So I am assuming it is the CSV.

 

The electrical connection at the CSV is +/- 12V. You can clip some leads to it and check to see if it's 12V continuously with ignition on. The voltage should show for ~ 1 sec when warm, and up to 6 or 8 seconds when cold IIRC.

 

But I'll go with your current assumption wrt faulty CSV. There is a slim chance some stuff is jamming it open, but I doubt it.

 

GL,

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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This is very interesting to me as I experience similar issues with my Tii and starting/running.  I'll post my own help request so as to not hi-jack this one.  I will be checking my valve now the next time I experience my problem.  I know the electrical side on mine is fine.

 

In regards to the CSV, I disconnected mine and just have a by-pass button that I can trigger from the inside.  Once it's started, I may have to hit it a couple times sporatically, but within 10-15 seconds it will idle fine on its own and away we go.

 

Good luck and please post your results for us other Tii owners.  TIA.

Mark C.

'74 Tii Atlantik

'74 Golf (RIP)

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Thanks for the info. Can you let me know how you wired the switch? I am mediocre on wiring...but can figure it out when I have to.

1973 2002Tii Agave "Gerta"-----1972 2002Tii Verona project-----------2003 Porsche 911 X51-------2016 FIAT Abarth--------2003 Porsche Boxster----------2005 Honda Element

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I did a quick search on FAQ, not sure this is enough detail...

 

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/55167-bypassing-the-cold-start-controller-on-a-tii/?hl=tii+cold+start+relay#entry576583

 

I don't recall what color the wires were that actually fire the CS injector, but you don't really need to know.  The injector has a red/white and a brown going to it, but I don't recall if that was the ones you jump.

 

Pull the plug out from the bottom of the relay switch mounted to the firewall.  Use a wire to jump two connections at a time until you hear the CSV click which is when it should be spraying fuel.  If you pull the tii air box/log/tube (whatever you want to call it) off at the rubber bellows right by the CS injector, you'll be able to see and smell gasoline when it sprays.  Once you know which two connections to jump, connect two wires and run them through the firewall into the interior of the car.  Connect the wires with a push button switch that is always open that when you push it completes the circuit and thus fires the CS injector.

 

Now you are the human Cold Start Relay.

 

Keep us posted on if the relay is bad and leaking which is causing your idling/running problem.  I need to troubleshoot mine if that ends up being the culprit.

 

I got the switch at Radio Shack and used some spare wire I had laying around.

Mark C.

'74 Tii Atlantik

'74 Golf (RIP)

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Brown is always ground on old BMWs. All you need to do is run a ground and a switched hot lead thru a momentary switch to the CSV to bypass the relay/thermo time switch.

 

Of course if your CSV is mechanically stuck open... you're SOL with the above :)

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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Achman your ccv valve has failed to the open position... 

 

Whether you decide to go with a manual control vs stock you will need a new ccv valve.. Unless you ditch the ccv altogether- but of course the engine will take more cranking to start when cold...

 

I would install the new ccv and then test it to make sure the relay box is working correctly.

 

If your new ccv valve opens and closes correctly with proper duration AND you continue to have starting issues its time to look somewhere else.

-Check your plugs- you have obviously been running this engine VERY rich.. At least needs a good hot run to burn off some carbon

-Test the fuel pressure and volume the electric fuel pump is putting out

-Check ignition timing- specifically not being too advanced for start

-Check the settings of the "cold start air supply"- the ccv is only the fuel half of the cold start system  

-Check KF pump linkages

-Is your starter turning your engine over slowly? Cleanup starter wires or upgrade the starter

74 tii
"I know just enough to be dangerous"

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