engine and drivetrain 73 Tii Non-Starting-Fuel Pooling Issue

[achman]

Hello everyone

Fresh back from driving to Lime Rock and acting generally ok (except for a starting issue, of course) now the Tii will not start. It is getting spark but seems to not be getting fuel.

Fuel seemed to be dripping a bit on the ground from somewhere, I assumed it was a leaking fuel line somewhere. After checking that, I have realized that it is coming from the hose linking the air intake and throttle body. Took the hose off and sure enough, there is a decent amount of fuel pooling there. I inspected all linkages and they move freely, opening the throttle body.

The car ran well beforehand, but has always not been the easiest to start, occasionally flooding and not starting till next day. However this is the first time I have noticed the fuel pool issue. It seems as if fuel is being injected into the intake but the throttle body is not opening to let it in at startup? I have tried starting it with throttle floored to no avail.

The plugs are ok, wires are new, and ignition is electronic.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated, I have searched but found nothing about the exact issue, and have probably read everything about starting a Tii at one point or another.

Thanks

[schoir]

Looking for the least complicated part of the system to eliminate as a cause of the fuel pooling, I would check to see whether your cold start relay is malfunctioning by continuously providing the signal for the extra fuel that it normally only provides on a cold start, or whether the cold start valve is stuck open.

 

Remove the cold start valve from the side of the throttle body and let the fuel squirt into a container while cranking the engine.  That will remove the additional fuel that the cold start relay provides on cold start (or continues to provide if there is a problem with that relay) and you will then also be able to see whether fuel is still pooling in that area.  If it isn't you may have solved the problem.  

 

If it is, your problem lies elsewhere.

 

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 4, 2013 by schoir

[TR]

+1 on the cold start valve.  Page 8 of the Fuel Injection guide (downloadable PDF) has the details.  TR

[lilmo]

+2.  Your plugs may be fuel fouled, too, if the relay isn't turning the valve off and you've been cranking it quite a bit.  

[achman]

Thanks for the info. I will remove and check the cold start valve tomorrow, that was my first thought also. i will also check the plugs again.

 

I recently replaced the fuel pump with a 5 series, so I know that is good...

 

If the cold start valve is the guilty party, should the car start without it in? Without all that extra fuel? Then just replace the valve?

[schoir]

If you remove the cold start valve, you can manually open the throttle butterfly valve and squirt a little starting fluid in there.  The car will start and run with that procedure every time, as long as your spark plugs are not fouled.

 

What 5 series part number did you use as a substitute for the tii pump?

 

Regards, Maurice.

[achman]

Thanks. I'll have to check on the pump, it was supplied by the PQ, as he thought the Tii pump was on it's last leg (it was)

[jgerock]

Purchase a new valve now. If the relay box is acting up and you can fix the problem you will have a spare valve.  I have kept my old valve (which still worked) in the new box for long distance trips.  That way you'll never need it (but someone else might).  New valve shown here but the sealing o-ring is not  - you'll need one of those.

Edited October 5, 2013 by jgerock

[ray_]

1) You flooded it.

2) Every time you crank it after that, the cold start valve opens for 1 second or more.

3) You flooded it more.

4) Return to step 2.

 

What plugs are you running? Don't say platinum.

What is your normal starting procedure? I believe BMW at one time said cranking for 15 seconds is acceptable (and maybe it was longer).

 

I assume you have all the info from tiiregister.com, have downloaded the manual and viewed the video.

 

GL,

Edited October 5, 2013 by ray_koke

[dang]

Its pretty common to rewire the cold start injector to operate manually with a switch on the dash. I live in CA and my tii's will start with no cold start injector with longer cranking, but a two second pull on the manual switch at they fire immediately. Just a thought...

Dan

Rocklin, CA

[pilotnbr1]

Test the cold start valve and the relay..

From what I remember-

Just remove the valve from the TB leave it plugged in. Find a clear container to catch fuel. Get a helper to turn the key in the ignition just to get the electric fuel pump going while you are prepared to catch any fuel from the cold start injector WITH the engine cold. If it starts dripping or spraying you have a leaking cold start injector valve.

If not then actually crank the engine and observe/time the spray from the valve. There is guidance for spray duration versus coolant temp. IF valve opens, sprays, and closes but duration is off then you have a cold start relay box problem or problem with the coolant sensor for the cold start relay box. 

For now though I would be looking for the valve to properly close and open.... I would imagine you could also double check your conclusion with a test light hooked up to the cold start injector plug..

 

Also not a bad time to test your electric fuel pump for proper volume AND pressure since you are playing with fuel and have the cold start valve disconnected...

Edited October 5, 2013 by pilotnbr1

[achman]

1) You flooded it.

2) Every time you crank it after that, the cold start valve opens for 1 second or more.

3) You flooded it more.

4) Return to step 2.

 

What plugs are you running? Don't say platinum.

What is your normal starting procedure? I believe BMW at one time said cranking for 15 seconds is acceptable (and maybe it was longer).

 

I assume you have all the info from tiiregister.com, have downloaded the manual and viewed the video.

 

GL,

No, I don't think so.. I am definitely aware of flooding possibilities. The fuel pooling is a new thing. The car is acting like it is not getting gas at all.

 

I am running the standard Bosch copper plugs. Correctly gapped.

 

Standard procedure is turning ignition on, letting fuel pump run for a good 10 seconds, and then cranking until it starts. I don't touch the gas when cold, and it usually starts fine when cold.

 

When hot, the car has never started very well. After not being able to start it while hot once, I cleaned the screen int he fuel pickup, then cranked down on the big washer thing on the K pump, flooring the accelerator and holding it there and cranking until the car started.. It started the next two days fine, hot or cold after that. Now I have this pooling issue.

 

I will test the valve tomorrow when i can get to the garage.

 

Thanks everyone

Brian

[ray_]

Hmm. Okay, keep up us posted.

 

You might take a good look at the ignition circuit. And timing.

 

GL,

Edited October 6, 2013 by ray_koke

[achman]

Thanks

 

I've checked plugs, rotor, cap, wires (all new) and set the timing two months ago.

 

The thing is, the car ran fine on a 3 hour drive back from Lime Rock to NYC in and out of traffic...

 

Then when I tried to start it for the first time, it ran very very lumpy.....

 

Then eventually would not start at all..

 

The car is pretty much perfect except for the constant starting issues...

[ray_]

Ok; I'm warming to the CSV or CSV circuit being the issue  ;-)

 

Let us know.

 

Cheers,