engine and drivetrain New '70 1600 Owner With A Few Questions.

[RyanH]

Hello!

 

Ive been wanting one of these cars since High School (circa 1987).  Anyways, finally have the time/space/money and I pulled the trigger.

 

Im about 90% mechanically done with a Factory 5 Cobra build and I went and moved to Seattle from Las Vegas so my driving season got shortened considerably.  "Needed" a hard top fun car...

 

Anyways, I need to get the cobra registered before I let myself work on the bmw, but I wanted to be ready to go.

 

I plan on hot rodding it out.  I want a fun car...not crazy scary fast...but really fun.

 

The car comes with a running 1.6L m10 and a 2.0L long block.

Judging by my 1.6L corolla, that is not really as much fun as Im looking for.  I doubt the 2.0 will be much better.

I want to run basically a stock NA engine with carbs.  Not really into the turbo scene and I already have a fuel injected fun car.  Im buying this for the tinkering.

 

Ive read thread after thread about how much hp you can or cannot squeeze from bmw engines but what Im looking for is what hp range should I be shooting for?

 

In the cobra world, 300-350hp is considered the sweet spot...sure guys run with 600+ but all that really gets them is the opportunity to put it into the weeds if the accidently give it more than half throttle when the tires are cold.

 

What is the sweet spot for these cars?  Ill be running fender flares (probably vw mk1 flares ala cubby chowders build) so Ill have wider than stock tires...

 

My gut says Im looking for the 180-200 range.

 

Any insight will be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Ryan

[Mike Self]

Coupla thoughts for you...

First of all, don't compare a 1600 Corolla with a 1600 or 2002....whiile they both have a wheel at each corner, they just ain't the same!

 

The whole point of a 2002 (or 1600) is balance...it's a great example of "you don't need cubic horsepower to go fast, especially in the twisties."   Sure, you can wring 180 hp out of an M10 engine, but  then you're gonna need to upgrade the brakes and suspension to handle the extra hp, and engine reliabilty will suffer as you're at the upper range.  You'd be better off to do an M20 conversion from an E30, as they start out at 168 hp and are much easier to tweak for more--but you'll still have to upgrade suspension and brakes. 

 

Keep it in the 140 hp range and your M10 will be much happier, and unless you're tracking it, the stock brakes will be plenty adequate.  I'd still go for bigger sway bars, lowering springs and wider wheels though.  Just makes the handling more fun.   

 

Remember that a 1600 comes with a 4.11 diff (vs 3.64 for a 2002) so even a stock 2 liter engine will give you better acceleration; it'll just be busy at highway speeds.  The answer there is to install an overdrive 5 speed. 

 

Bottom line--don't compare your 1600/2002 with either the Corolla or your Cobra--it's a whole different kettle 'o fish.  Seattle has a bunch of 02 owners, get ahold of them and see what they've done, then decide what you want to do with yours.

 

cheers, and welcome to the fraternity/sorority.

 

mike

[williamggruff]

I'd love to have a 1600 with a stock motor. My 2.3L bored and stroked 2002 has 160-170 HP. On the street, it's a fast car being driven slowly. It would be a hell of a lot more fun to ring the neck of a 1600 at legal speeds. Also, when you get the suspension tuned to the bejesus with coil overs and what not, the sense of driving a comfortable yet sporty little sedan goes away at most speeds that are safe on the road.

I belong to a group of jokers who race 2002s in the Lemons series. We've been campaigning a 2.2L Metric Mechanic tii for the past 3 years and we've given it a super sporty suspension. It's loads of fun on the track when we're thrashing it at the limit. But the carby Lemons 2002 we built this year and raced for the first time last weekend is more fun at lower speeds. It's not as powerful or as nimble. It provides a greater sense of speed, and a more enjoyable racing and driving experience than the tii, as it requires more of the driver. Interestingly, during test and tune day last Friday, our best driver took the carby (110ish HP, estimated) and our second best driver took the tii (150ish HP, estimated), and the carby driver overtook the tii driver and pulled away. The driver has more to do with performance than the motor and suspension.

I love driving all three of the 2002s at my disposal, but the least tuned is the most entertaining and exhilarating. If you're looking for crazy handling and acceleration, you're probably better off buying a newer car. If you want to feel the excitement that made the 1600 and 2002 so popular, I suggest you leave it as stock as possible for a while, and have some fun with it. You should have no problem finding other 2002s in your area that are tuned up so that you can perform a comparison between stock and tweaked.

[Chamonix72]

Since you live in Seattle, I recommend calling Patrick at Midnight Motorsport. 503-381-7287. There are a ton of 02s in the area, so you can ride in as many configurations as there are.

[RyanH]

Hey,

 

Thanks for the input guys.  My neighbor in the condo Im renting has 2 '02s and he filled me in on Patrick.  Hes going to take me out in his one of these days.  I think he has a NA 2.0 and a turbo'd s14.

 

Ive been leaning towards an m20 for the fun of the build as well as the power, but I worry about throwing off the balance.  I have to admit Ive always been more into big power over high revs, but maybe I need to expand my horizons.

 

The corolla reference was just about a regular 1.6l as far as power to weight ratio...its not  suped up in any way..just a cheap commuter car...but giving it the gas while merging certainly doesn't give any of the fizz James May talks about.

 

Ryan

[tjones02]

Since you're now in the Seattle area you should talk with Byron Sanborn at Vintage Racing Motors in Redmond for advice on everything from suspension setup to extracting all there is from these engines. On this forum he goes by Preyupy.

http://www.vrmotors.com

[NickVyse]

I'd love to have a 1600 with a stock motor. My 2.3L bored and stroked 2002 has 160-170 HP. On the street, it's a fast car being driven slowly. It would be a hell of a lot more fun to ring the neck of a 1600 at legal speeds. Also, when you get the suspension tuned to the bejesus with coil overs and what not, the sense of driving a comfortable yet sporty little sedan goes away at most speeds that are safe on the road.

I belong to a group of jokers who race 2002s in the Lemons series. We've been campaigning a 2.2L Metric Mechanic tii for the past 3 years and we've given it a super sporty suspension. It's loads of fun on the track when we're thrashing it at the limit. But the carby Lemons 2002 we built this year and raced for the first time last weekend is more fun at lower speeds. It's not as powerful or as nimble. It provides a greater sense of speed, and a more enjoyable racing and driving experience than the tii, as it requires more of the driver. Interestingly, during test and tune day last Friday, our best driver took the carby (110ish HP, estimated) and our second best driver took the tii (150ish HP, estimated), and the carby driver overtook the tii driver and pulled away. The driver has more to do with performance than the motor and suspension.

I love driving all three of the 2002s at my disposal, but the least tuned is the most entertaining and exhilarating. If you're looking for crazy handling and acceleration, you're probably better off buying a newer car. If you want to feel the excitement that made the 1600 and 2002 so popular, I suggest you leave it as stock as possible for a while, and have some fun with it. You should have no problem finding other 2002s in your area that are tuned up so that you can perform a comparison between stock and tweaked.

 

that is pretty much spot on. My first 02 was a Tii, then a stock 02, followed by an m2. m2 has sat off the road for years now and I've been grinning from ear to ear spanking the stock 1600 to the limit. The only thing I'd want to improve on is adding some more lightness. The rev happy nature of the short throw crank 1600 actually makes it feel like a baby s14 sometimes.