tires and wheels Nose Down Stance

[Stuart]

I'm researching stance options for my 72.  I've been through the "stance" thread which has been very helpful.  My debate as I decide on ride height is level vs "nose down".  In looking through the stance thread I see several cars that sit with the front being slightly lower creating what I call a nose down stance.  I am leaning towards this over level and I'm wondering how this was achieved? 

 

Was it done through tire and wheel size difference, spring length, spacers or something else? 

 

Or am I just in need of new glasses?

 

Spike       

[Dabliz02]

Some of the cars do have different tires sizes/ profiles to make it look like that.  You MUST read carefully through the "stance" thread and all the hidden answers are there (yes it takes a lot of time to go through 30 pages)  Obviously you will never find the exact combo you want though    But I think 02s look better flat.  Seems to be more Euro to me. Muscle cars go ass- up

[Koblenz]

Spike,

 

I have the slight nose down.  Mine was accidental.  I have the IE Stage 1 springs, Billie (HDs I think), 15x7 with 205s.  It would be even more nose lower but I put my spacers between struts and inside fender wheel. The tires would rub with a RR crossing or speed bump.

 

The primary reason mine is nose down is because of the springs. Nothing else.

 

Hope this helps.

[gliding_serpent2]

Nose down here also. Hd shocks, ie stage 1 springs, front aluminum spacers removed. Two dot rear upper spring seats. Was almost 1.5 inches lower up front which was unacceptable for handeling concerns.

In the end i put ie fixed camber plates and a 1/4 inch spacer up front, and cut the rubber spring seats in the back for a far more acceptable 1 inch rake (advised in the tii registry suspension article). I would be happy to drop the rear an extra 1/4 to 1/2, but without a measuring tape, you would not notice.

Great setup for improved looks, and with the ie adjustable sway bars... A beast on the track without sacraficing streetability. Zero rubbing with 195/60/14 falken 615k's on e30 bottlecaps with hard cornering on the track. Brillient tire suspension combo for street/track.

[Koblenz]

Nose down here also. Hd shocks, ie stage 1 springs, front aluminum spacers removed. Two dot rear upper spring seats. Was almost 1.5 inches lower up front which was unacceptable for handeling concerns.

In the end i put ie fixed camber plates and a 1/4 inch spacer up front, and cut the rubber spring seats in the back for a far more acceptable 1 inch rake (advised in the tii registry suspension article). I would be happy to drop the rear an extra 1/4 to 1/2, but without a measuring tape, you would not notice.

Great setup for improved looks, and with the ie adjustable sway bars... A beast on the track without sacraficing streetability. Zero rubbing with 195/60/14 falken 615k's on e30 bottlecaps with hard cornering on the track. Brillient tire suspension combo for street/track.

1 dot rear, IE sways.  Agreed on the additional drop in the rear of 1/4 to 1/2.  Would you consider cutting the springs?

[TobyB]

'Rake', as it's called, has a substantial effect on a 2002's handling-  when you look at roll centers in the rear suspension,

you find that as little as 1/2" in rake change can make a substantial difference in over/understeer characteristics.

 

t

[Koblenz]

Toby, as in desirable rake?

[mike472]

this is with IE stage 1 no spacers in front and 15x6 wheels with 195/50s. Pretty flat look and handles great. Offset is perfect on the wheels

[roadhog0]

I use to run around with HnR's up front and stocks in the rear and sways all around. Man did the back of that thing roll all over the place... Keep em flat! They drive better 

 

Edited September 6, 2013 by roadhog0

[TobyB]

Probably not desirable with stock spring rates.  When you go stiffer, though, it becomes a tuning tool.

 

 

Or so it seems.  

 

t

[Jace]

depends on what height you want. if very low, then i'd be more keen to keep wheel gap/tuck even front-to-rear, than rocker height even front-to-rear. if you only want a mild drop like most do, maybe level rockers and smaller rear wheel gap will work for you.

there's cars out there that are far worse for 'rake' than 2002's, old Cressida's come to mind, and lets not forget E30's.

[Honolulu]

what you need to do, IMNSHO, is to discard the "what it looks like" mentality and get yourself an understanding of the mechanics and physics that come into play in suspension engineering. 

 

Some questions to entertain...

 

Will you be a poser with a car that looks bitchen, or will you honestly fine tune your car so that it is capable of performing better than it did when it left the factory? "Stance" per se is largely and solidly within the poser realm.

 

Can you drive the car safely anywhere near the limits of stock performance?

 

Where is your roll center and what effect does it have?  What do changes to caster, camber, and toe-in do?  Should your control arms drop from the subframe out to the ball joints, be level, or tilt up?

 

There is some expertise on this board, but with few exceptions most of what I've read is about appearance and "handling" whatever that is, being an occasional benefit.

 

It's often said that the driver his/herself is the weak link in performance... word!

 

And oh yeah, speed costs money, how much have you got?

 

Flame suit on.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Honolulu

[M3M3M3]

nice try Hono!  i gave up on making that argument. most folks care far more about the look or "stance", than how the car actually performs.  it is all about the Pose....

[TobyB]

Well, you can always stiffen the springs to compensate for whatever effect rake might happen to have.

 

Sure, your ultimate grip might go down, but if it's stable in a drift, what else really matters?  The legal

speed limit is always half of what it should be to be any fun anyways, right?

 

Then again, i buy cheap stock car springs, cut them in half, put them into a spring rate checker,

and start cutting off parts of coils until I get the rates I want. 

 

Don't most people?

 

t

[mikesmith]

But if you're not tracking the car or otherwise driving it at the limit, isn't stancing it level 'posing' as someone that cares about their roll centres?