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mattij

Schnitzer 20-4 Reproduction

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(edited)

Hi

 

I just wanted to share a project I have been now working for ... quite some time.

 

During 2005 I bought a 1973 factory rally car, originally driven by Jean Todt and Achim Warmbold. A finnish rally driver Heikki Enomaa bought and picked it up personally from Munich during 1974. The car was enterd in several rallies in Finland and Mr. Enomaa also tried his luck in RAC, though had to retire. Unfortunately more than once. Car's origin and rallying history is well documented so it is an interesting vechile. Currently a complete wreck, but waiting for restoration to start, being my next major project.

 

Amazing thing is that there is an other car in UK which is claimed to have exactly the same chassis number, though this car has rectangular tail lights and modern front. I have been trying to figure out the story behind this, but I have not been able to get any useful information neither from Mobile Tradition nor from the people that in my understanding have the UK car, in fact no response in latter case.

 

Putting the car aside, it however introduced me to 20-4 engine. The car had a carburator version of it. During 2006 I bought yet two engines from Germany, as for a completely other reason I had to travel between Helsinki and Munich on regular basis. These engines are equiped with fuel injection and dry sumps.

 

As I do race with my own 02, my first concern was, how to get spares to these engines, old ones are almost all in more or less in the end of their usable lifetime. I wanted to do serious racing so I had a problem. I started to figure out, how to reproduce new heads, cam carriers etc, parts. The key being here - with bearable costs. Now I can say that first head is casted and very first basic machining is done.

post-33891-0-64502000-1371665515_thumb.j

 

I have mentioned my plan previously in some contexts, but since then have been keeping a low profile on the topic. What I can say is that quite a lot of effort has been put in ensuring that the heads really will work, casting system is planned carefully, alloy is carefully selected individually both for head an cam carrier, it will work also on turbocharged applications, etc.I have also done quite a lot of simulation and analysis work on how casting system works and also how the reverse engineered water jacket will function.

 

post-33891-0-17670000-1371665567_thumb.j

The picture is a full package of what I have modelled, i.e. head, cam carrier, head and timing covers and intake manifold. In addition I have modelled an additional cover which was welded in some engine's rear part, used in upright engines.

 

I can only congratulate nick Kari for what he has created, knowing the challenges he also must have faced. There is one difference I can point from pictures, my model can be used even for three spark plug/cylinder configuration.

(http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/58595-update-of-the-schnitzer-2002-gruppe-5-project/page-6#entry33516)

 

I hope I'm able to share some news in the near future. Having been able to reach this stage, most of the uphill battles are now (hopefully) over and its is more about organizing and coordinating rather than figuring out how on earth were they able to do it in 1973 and how.

Edited by mattij

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wow this is very interesting!!!

im not very familiar with the schnitzer set up but would something like this bolt on to an m10 block??

thanks for sharing.

Yes, the 20-4 heads bolt right up on m10s.

This is awesome! I have to say, I am a bit awestruck by the amount of development that is still happening to the m10 engine!

I am pretty sure my kid will tell me one day that he just converted my 02 to the latest fission power plant, and it bolts right up to the m10.

The cars will never die.

Regards

Jacques

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No. 

 

But most noticably, the M12 had the exhaust and intake switched.  IIRC it was only put into a 2002 by GS-Tuning.  They had major issues with heat due to the exhaust being on the drivers side.

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Heidegger also ran an o2 with an M12 (M12/6) I believe which was the class winner for its group at Lemans in 1975.  Very complicated to run that motor in an o2 as previsously mentioned by others......and hot as hell.  From what I understand the Schnitzer motor's weren't much better in terms of heating up the cabin.  Attached is a link to what appears to be a very nicely prepared o2 with an M12/7.....and it can be yours for only EUR 210.000 (or about $277,000).  I think its incredible work these guys are doing (have done) to make these replica's, because finding used stuff that is any good is very difficult anymore.  While the head does bolt up to an M10 block there is a lot more to it than that.  I just returned my engine block to my engine builder this week along with a bunch of cash to finish my motor off, so with a little luck in 3-4 months that part of the project should be complete.

 

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/44547/bmw_2002_16v_tii_1975.html

 

 

www.alpinabwm2002.com

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Hi Mattie,I would like to ask you about your 2002 how long you have owned it and any previous history.you mention the car in the uk,we have the 2002 rally car fitted with a m12 f2 engine and documentation to prove it was the works built car.it has been with the same owner for 37 years.woud really like to talk to you.

Regards,hazel.

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Absolutely fantastic work! I dream of the day I have access to enough machinery to make myself a twin cam head :)

 

Keep us posted! I remember another user posting about his schnitzer head, and there are a number of people around who have raced them over the years who may be helpful. 

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Time goes, fast, so its now time to do an update.
 
Without going to any of the details of all the 'learnings' I had to go through with the first prototype casting during last year, I now have figured out how to produce the head with the quality and pricepoint expected. End result is a combination of traditional and 3D printed cores and moulds. This and a reliable foundry with the skills and dedication is also a vital part of the equation. Also the created 3D model had to have minor adjustments as it was done based on scanned images from original parts.
 
Timewise targets are now set so, that prototype head will be assembled during January, final porting and engine put together in Feb. Should be dynoed in March. 'Production' versions #2 & #3
post-33891-0-35457600-1449573141_thumb.j
are now casted and currently being T6 heat treated. Machining will happen once the final porting is done for the prototype.
 
Preliminary pricepoint is now set, the head with seats and valve guides is ~6500,-€ and cam carrier ~3200,-€ (ex VAT). This head will be exactly as the one in FIA/CSI Homologation 5258 for 2002. For a complete engine projected cost should be round 25k€-30k€ depending on how much is spent to pistons, rods, valves etc. It is easy to go over that by using exotic(=even more expensive) materials and parts.
 
If I remember it right I bought my first 20-4 in 2005, so I really hope I can be more active here in the near future. I also really want to run the next season with 16-valves and get the rally car restored as well.
 
Hoping to do updates soon...
 

 

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Nice work.  An impressive undertaking.  Please do keep updates coming as you progress.

 

www.alpinabmw2002.com

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Hi again,

 

moving back in time to first analysis of what was modeled by reverse engineering.

 

I wanted to be sure that waterjacket works so first step was to figure the characteristics of waterflow. First point was to ensure that speed of the flow is even.

 

post-33891-0-71062100-1449601178_thumb.j

Picture above shows the speed variation in different parts of the head using the standard M10 gasket design. 

 

post-33891-0-34642800-1449601672_thumb.j

Respective temperature distribution in the waterjacket.

 

post-33891-0-65979400-1449601419_thumb.j

This shows the final version of the simulation model used for waterflow and heat transfer. Flow and heat samples are from previous model. There were some potential anomalies and the final model was something that could be used within processing power available to us.

 

At the end of the day, I was pretty happy with the results. I can only admire the engineering expertise and experience original designers had to have considering the kind of tools they used!!

post-33891-0-00063000-1449602338_thumb.j

 

 

 

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Very interesting.  It appears you are making your new castings with the "schnitzer" font/log cast in.  Apparently no problems from Schnitzer regarding copywrite.  Your price points seem reasonable to me.  I spoke with my engine builder some time ago regrading machining a bare head (raw casting), many different operations to do and very expensive.  Of course if you are doing a number of them it costs less ..... This is that BmW M12 rallye motor with "butterlfy" injection Andersson mentioned, restored by Lester Owen (image by Lester Owen).  I don't know the details on these but there weren't many made, maybe only a few.

 

 

post-38814-0-47293000-1449625750_thumb.j

 

 

www.alpinabmw2002.com

 

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