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Advice On Mechanical Fan Delete For Triple-Core Radiator


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There's definitely a problem if you have no clearance for your fan--I've had a 3 row core radiator on my '73 since 1987 or so and while the clearance is tight (15 or so mm) fan and radiator have never met, socially or otherwise. 

 

What's puzzling is that your thermostat isn't opening--it should, unless there's a big air bubble jammed up against it that's not allowing the hot coolant to contact it properly. 

 

Hail Mary suggestion to get your tii to Vintage:  Visit a plumbing shop and buy a Y-shaped piece of plumbing pipe of the proper diameter and fit it in place of the offending 'stat (presuming you can't get a new one on such short notice).  Or gut an old stat of its innards so you're running an empty pipe.  That will vastly improve coolant flow and make up for the lack of fan.

 

Two years ago I drove to and from Vintage with a 5 blade fan that was down to about 2 1/2 blades from pieces chunking off and had no problems, even through the WV mountains.

 

Hope to see you at Vintage in your tii.

 

cheers

mike 

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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If you have an air bubble trapped under the closed thermostat, I think you can have the same result.  At least that was the case in my 80 Fiat Spider which had a similar setup.  Drilling a small hole in the thermostat allows that trapped air to get out.

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Im running a pusher fan, thermo switch and manual overide, in traffic it gets up to about 3/4 before it comes on . On a warm day while travelling (fan off) slightly above 1/2. Thats also with a 80o thermostat.Id be a bit better off with a 75 deg, but not really worried .The main time the thermo is good is at idle/slow traffic.

72/2002 Inca

72tii/2002 "Apple"

70/2002 "Five "

73/2002 "Freeda"

2007 Lotus 7 Replica

2011 Ford xr6 Ute

85 E30 325

70 1600-2 "Orange"

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Ok, mechanical fan is out, triple-core radiator is in, about 1/4" to 3/8" clearance, drove round the block, slammed on the brakes 5 times, not hearing/seeing any impingement, heats up to temperature, thermostat opens up, temperature climbs, I can turn on the electric fan and the temp comes back down.

 

Of course at the moment it's overcast and 60 degrees.

 

Tomorrow it's supposed to be 83.

 

Decision tomorrow, then.

1/4in clearance is miles for those of us with S14's.  usually we run with 1/8in clearance...and that is after we cut the nose off the water pump.  you will be fine as long a motor mounts are good and you adjusted the limiter.

Edited by mlytle

2xM3

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If you have an air bubble trapped under the closed thermostat, I think you can have the same result.  At least that was the case in my 80 Fiat Spider which had a similar setup.  Drilling a small hole in the thermostat allows that trapped air to get out.

+1 on this.  I drill a small hole in the thermostat as a matter of routine.  Otherwise, I always have problems getting the bubbles out.

Matthew Cervi
'71 Bavaria

'18 M2

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Rob - have you inspected the coolant branch for gummed up internals?  Have you compared the temp gauge with an IR gun?

 

I squeeze the inclined water hose between the tstat and coolant branch manifold to purge/burp air while the engine is NOT running.  Hope I don't jinx myself for the trip since I just changed the coolant 2 weeks ago...

 

Edited for safety's sake since I have a mechanical fan.

Edited by jgerock

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Jim, yes to 1, no to 2. There's little question the radiator that was in it didn't have enough flow to get the thermostat open (IMHO). With the mechanical fan removed, the triple-core fits and seems to correctly "run off the thermostat. The only question is how well the 12" Spal electric pusher fan -- intended for the a/c condenser -- cools the radiator in hot weather (I'll find that out tomorrow), and how nervous I'll be not having a mechanical fan. In my E9, the Mark Preisendorf radiator completely solved all hot-running problems, and that was a reaction against it having run hot on the way to Vintage at Saratoga. I'd hoped to have that same level of confidence in the tii's cooling system before a drive this long through a combination of this many urban areas and empty roads.

The new book The Best Of The Hack Mechanic available at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0998950742, inscribed copies of all books available at www.robsiegel.com

1972 tii (Louie), 1973 2002 (Hampton), 1975 ti tribute (Bertha), 1972 Bavaria, 1973 3.0CSi, 1979 Euro 635CSi, 1999 Z3, 1999 M Coupe, 2003 530i sport, 1974 Lotus Europa Twin Cam Special (I know, I know...)

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i have  a 12in flex-a-lite fan in mine with a big radiator.  wish i had put a 13in fan in.  it does ok in anything but total stop and go on a hot day.  then i turn the heat on and the ventilation fan on high for extra engine cooling at the expense of me overheating....

2xM3

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In true hack fashion...

 

Years ago in SF, a friend's 2002 got backed into a bit, mostly on the hood, and the fan was just touching the radiator.   He had to go somewhere the next day, and there was no time to get new parts or visit a body shop.

 

I borrowed the strut tower stress bar from my car and bolted it onto his.  I then removed his radiator.  Using a scissors jack and severay pieces of 2x4s, I pushed the radiator mounting area of the inner grille back out enough to give room to drive the car.  Put it all back together and it was fine.  He never did get the hood damage fixed.

 

Good luck at Vintage, wish I was going!

 

vince

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Rob,

 

I've been running the Spal pusher setup w/out mechanical fan for years. The truth is that you will find the cooling of a new 3-row almost gets u by without a fan. While moving in 80 degree weather my temp runs 1/2 with no fan. At stop lights the temp slowly goes up to 2/3 then the fan kicks in and the gauge is back down to 1/2 very quickly. I carry a couple of spare fuses for the fan circuit and don't think twice about long summer trips, and I'm not even 1/2 the mechanic you are ;)

1974 polaris A 4281992 (total resto with 5-spd conversion)

1976 jadegrun 2744974 (sold then killed by the new owner, grrrr!)

1976 sahara A 2392532 (sold)

1971 nevada 2571108(RIP)

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Just to wrap this up, I found that the clearance problem from the mechanical fan -- its hitting the radiator -- is root-caused by the nose not being on the car quite square. The fan hits the right side of the radiator, or I should say the radiator hits the right side of the fan. Vince's post about using appropriate mechanical leverage to gain clearance is probably right on the money. If I can gain 1/4", I could fit the triple-core with the mechanical fan in place. Now that I'm back from The Vintage (I drove the E9), I'll look at it all carefully and see if I can come up with a method that is short of simply beating it with a sledgehammer. I do have access at work to one of those hydraulic cylinder kits. 

The new book The Best Of The Hack Mechanic available at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0998950742, inscribed copies of all books available at www.robsiegel.com

1972 tii (Louie), 1973 2002 (Hampton), 1975 ti tribute (Bertha), 1972 Bavaria, 1973 3.0CSi, 1979 Euro 635CSi, 1999 Z3, 1999 M Coupe, 2003 530i sport, 1974 Lotus Europa Twin Cam Special (I know, I know...)

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One more for the small hole in the tstat, BUT.... make sure when you reinstall that he little hole is at 12 o'clock.  My last E9 'stat came with a hole.  I have a new E12 rad in there, and with the cold 'stat, the engine runs too cold - like only 3/16 out of the blue at the bottom of the gage.

 

I want to borrow a Raytek and verify coolant temp against gage position, to get the "normal running" coolant temp up to 180 or so.   The current stat won't allow temp that high, which means the rad is more than capable, nice to know since was a bit of drama getting to that point.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just to wrap this up REALLY. I did NOT beat the car with a sledgehammer to move the right-hand radiator mount point further out. No sir. Not me. No, no, no.

 

I put a hockey puck over the point and hit the hockey puck with a sledgehammer. A small one. Totally different.

 

I also noticed that one blade on the red plastic fan was the one doing the rubbing. I bought a new fan.

 

This all bought me the 1/4" I needed.

 

Installed it all this morning, checked static clearances, filled it up, took it for a drive, slammed the brakes repeatedly... I think we're good.

 

It's all about solving problems and moving forward.

The new book The Best Of The Hack Mechanic available at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0998950742, inscribed copies of all books available at www.robsiegel.com

1972 tii (Louie), 1973 2002 (Hampton), 1975 ti tribute (Bertha), 1972 Bavaria, 1973 3.0CSi, 1979 Euro 635CSi, 1999 Z3, 1999 M Coupe, 2003 530i sport, 1974 Lotus Europa Twin Cam Special (I know, I know...)

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