engine and drivetrain Opinions On This Car?

[max210]

I'm looking to buy my first 02. I don't know much about them besides the informative postings I've read here. I found this car on craigslist.  Does anyone here know this car? Does not having the original engine and needing new paint justify the price? I've seen very clean cars going for about 10k-12k in this area and not restored but drivers going for about 5k to 9k.

Thanks for any help. Hopefully I'll find a nice daily driver soon.

http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/cto/3715522184.html

 

[c.d.iesel]

BEWARE OF THE  R U S T   B U G!

 

FRONT AND REAR

How long has it been " a Calif car " ?

Edited May 7, 2013 by c.d.iesel

[hanksjim1]

I'd suggest you have a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) performed by a knowledgeable local shop or expert.  The FAQ crew should be able to suggest one if you choose to go that direction.  That will tell you a lot about condition, needed repairs and put you in a better position to make an offer or walk away.  I'll let others chime in, but without more details; if is in great mechanical shape, good interior, original, no rust issues and just needs paint, 13K would seem to be closer to the mark IMHO.  That being said, Tii prices seem to be definitely on the rise lately.

[Mark92131]

You are going to pay a premium for a Tii and prices have gone up, up, up over the last year.  This looks like a pretty solid example, with the exception of the front valence rust spot and the ding on the rear that has begun to show some surface rust.  You don't see a lot of 72's for sale in CA and they are considered the most desirable model year.  The fact that it doesn't have the original engine and needs paint will hurt the price which is probably why it is offered at $16K instead of $20K.  If it passes a PPI with no real issues (hidden rust, mechanical problems), it seems reasonably priced for a 1972 Tii.  If you really want it, I would suggest going in with a cash offer between $12K and the asking price and see if you can pick it up at a discount.  After that, I would treat the two rust issues, convert the headlights back to the original equipment and drive it daily.

 

IMHO,

 

Mark92131

[Conserv]

I don't know if it's venial or mortal sin, but that burden should fall on me as I suggested that Max210 move this thread out of Classifieds and into '02 General Discussion -- which he obviously has done. I suggested this because -- at least as far as my computer skills are concerned -- my only means of commenting on classified ads is with a "Question" or pm: neither of which has the efficiency of the traditional thread format. Thus, either I (we?) need to get educated as to our new interface or -- I hope you're listening, Steve K. -- perhaps we can figure out a way to meld the old with the new.

Just for the record, here were my thoughts in my original pm to Max210.

Looks like a good car -- as far as one can tell from 5 mediocre photos. Given that a '72 parts car/needs-everything-project, not run in 16 years and apparently not driven in more than 20 years, just sold on eBay for $4,600, the $16,000 price of this car no longer looks crazy. Some absolute dog tii's -- no offense intended, canine friends -- have sold recently on eBay for this price, but at least one of those returned to sell for closer to half that price. If you have a 2002 person look at the car, agree with the seller's contention on the "no-rust" issue, and drive the car -- giving it a favorable review -- you wouldn't be insane to buy it for $15,000 although I believe it should be closer to a $12,000 car. EBay screws up the market prices because idiots who know nothing about a particular make and model, who don't get a pre-purchase inspection, who don't see a car in person, feel free to bid anything, believing they can always walk away later. But assuming this is a bona fide '72 tii -- check all the VINs -- it's more collectible than the average '02. The swapped out engine isn't great, but unless you're shooting for Pebble Beach authenticity, it only affects value somewhat.

(A '72 tii originally had plastic intake runners and a two-piece dashboard; this now has cast runners and a one-piece dash from a square taillight.)

Good luck,

Steve

Edited May 22, 2013 by Conserv

[TobyB]

That seems like an awful lot for that car.

 

But I may be out of it...

 

It's certainly too much to take on faith- you need a good 2002 person

to really crawl all over it for that money.  It might be worth it.

But things that I can see in the tiny pics (funny nose seam?

non- matching front fender top seams? Rust on the spare tire well?

Generally scuffy edges of the inner engine bay?)

make it curious enough to me that (if I had that kind of money) I'd spend

2 hours with it on a lift, and me with a borescope, mirror, magnet and skepticism.

 

You can spend $20k on a turd and it'll turn it from a 3k turd into an 8k turd.

Or you can do a proper rolling resto for that.  Just depends.

 

t

[max210]

I talked to the owner. He says he had the entire rear end rebuilt, new bearings, bushing, struts, work done at 2002Haus in SLO. Had the front and rear seats reupholstered in the original blue cloth. There is no rust, but the paint is chipping away exposing the black primer underneath. The car does need a paint job, including the engine bay, which he described as "rough."  He is not aware that the car was damaged but the says the front end of the the car has a "snorkel" type opening for a carbed engined (maybe you guys can school me on this). I'm still interested but the price should be very negotiable considering all that. I suspect the owner may be trying to recoup some of the money invested in the car.

Edited May 7, 2013 by max210

[roadhog0]

Personally I wouldnt pay that much. I see too much rust for it to command that price and a good paintjob is a lot of work! I'd keep lookin if I were you.

[Chamoix]

The non-tii cars have an opening in the sheet metal surrounding the radiator that was an air inlet for the air cleaner on a carbureted car (non-tii). It's on the upper left side inside the engine compartment facing the car and looks like about a 1.5 diameter tube about 2-3 inches in length that goes through the sheet metal. Tii cars did not have them. Probably means that the nose clip on the car was replaced. Perhaps poorly as others have observed some misalignments and odd seams on the front.

I'm with many of the others. Doesn't look too bad for a driver, but I would be more excited at $8,000-$10,000. $12,000 absolute tops.

[jgerock]

I'd contact Rob Torres at 2002 Haus to have him do a PPI - especially since the current owner had the rear end work done by Rob.

[Mike Self]

More on the nose panel...if the owner says the paint is chipping and exposing black primer, then the nose is a replacement.  The factory primer on 2002s was two shades of grey, the primer closest to the bare metal having a greenish tinge.  Replacement sheet metal from the factory generally came in black primer. 

 

mike

[max210]

This gives me mixed feelings on the Tii now. :/

 

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/3793784385.html

[ibjettin]

Being a first time owner I would really look into the cost of maintanence of a tii. Repairs or replacement of the K-pump, or injectors could break any man's wallet.

[robspeed]

$16k is what I dumped into my car (if you include tools, consumables..  But I did things backwards and started with the mechanicals, much of which could have kept going, when I should have started with the bodywork and stopped the VERY minor rust it had when I first got it.  Fast forward about eight years and I ended up selling her for $1k just because the body had still not yet been adressed, and, partially due to unforseen circumstances outside my control, allowed to get worse.  It was about to get WAY worse due to it being my only car in Indiana in an approaching winter, so I sold it to Reggie who put it inside his shop and is now working on an s14 version of it.

 

One of my fantasies is to let Reggie do all the work on it, including all the needed bodywork (although I am willing to help him with this part of it!!--still feel guilty for letting it get worse on my watch), wait for Completed Project Car Syndrome to set in, and then buy it back from him at a discount after he does all the work and spends all the money on it...  Anyway, having said that, what will probably happen is I wait another four years for us to move back to California and, eventually, pull the same scam on someone else out there.  

 

Its just a sad reality that you do NOT get your money out of mechanical restorations or mods.  The only thing that pays you back or can even have a hope of paying you something back after investing your time and money is bodywork.  And that is what best preserves these cars, so it all kind of works out in the end.

Edited May 10, 2013 by robspeed

[Conserv]

This gives me mixed feelings on the Tii now. :/

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/3793784385.html

Why? This car needs as much work as the tii -- e.g., paint -- is less original than the tii, and, above all, is not a tii. If the tii was overpriced by a few thousands, this is more overpriced. The color is likely not a 2002 color; how good a color change did they do? In short, you'd be paying for sway bars, rims, and seats. Now I suppose if you really like those sway bars, rims, and seats, that's certainly worth something.

But if you're going to buy a car that needs a paint job at some point fairly near term -- both this and the tii have some (hopefully) surface rust issues that will likely lead to a re-paint -- you should be able to find a very sound round taillight non-tii for $5,000 to $8,000 tops. I can't say the same for tii's: an apparently honest eBay listing for a tii -- engine not run in 16 years, car not really driven in 25 years, mere remnants of paint -- brought $4,600.

However you choose, please get a PPI!

Good luck,

Steve

Edited May 10, 2013 by Conserv