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"stalling Under All Accelerations" Help Needed


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So I am still trying to get my engine to run properly since last week.  Got it started for the first time last week as well. 

 

Upgrades/ Important Stuff

 

45 DCOEs

302 IE Cam

Stock Vacuum Advance Style Distributor  # 0231 181017    JFUD4 (If the last 4 have anything to do with anything) Its capped off.

10:1 Compression Piano Top Pistons

Dual Valve Springs

Petronics

8mm Wires

NGK Plugs

 

 

Issue:

The car does not want to rev up enough.  at idle it only revs up to about 2500 to 3000 then stunbles, as well as trying to drive.  It just stumbles and wants to die out.  Press the clutch and it stays alive.

 

I did the lean best idle for the carbs but not sure where to go from here.  I made a post of this issue a couple weeks back as a distributor issue (which it may still be) but had lack of information for you guys.  Hopefully this is better than the other one.  Where should I start?  I think I am not starving the carbs because when revving I see plenty of fuel at my clear fuel filter so therefore I'm pretty sure the bowls are full.  I'm just too young too understand carbs!!!

 

Thanks In Advance

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not your problem yet: With that cam, compression ratio, and carb setup, The response with a mechanical advance distributor is going to be a world of difference. Capping off the vacuum pot is not the same curve as a designed curve of a mech adv. dizzy

is the IE cam a new billet or regrind, if regrind are you running oversize eccentrics?

Edited by daron
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it is a new billet one.  I am not running oversized eccentrics.  Also I had no issues with valve adjustment to .006-.008 (did my best for .007)

if that may be concerning you with possibly needing oversized eccentrics.

 

I have no issue with getting a full mech dizzy, but just want to be sure I am not missing the basic stuff.  I will need to get thecarbs properly tuned but I want it at least driveable first obviously.  Should I just start with a TII Dizzy and go from there?  I feel that is my next step.

 

Thank You!!

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no need for oversize eccentrics on a new billet.

I'm running (at least when my car is together) an 037 ti mech dizzy. got rid of some detonation from the generic vac advance unit. acceleration with a 300 and a 292 both regrind was a night and day difference with the 037 dizzy in the advance RPM range. Best lean idle is not going to help after the transition off idle. If your not running a wideband, have you done a plug chop? what do you plugs look like?

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Are the 45's new? a kit? jetted for your application?

Jet listing for those more knowledgable please:

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I have not done a plug chop and the plugs still look new as of now.

 

My 45s are new and is a kit from TEP and on the paperwork it came with it says it is jetted properly for the intended application.  I cannot find and specific jet listing in the kit though.  All the info is for 2002 setups with the fuel pump provided in the kit as well.

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I don't ever take a companies word that carbs are "jetted for your application"

 

they almost never are. Not shaming TEP here, just my general experience. What you are describing sounds like it is running rich to me or your timing is off. Have you checked your timing with a timing light? Does it rev freely when not under load or does it stall then also? can you get it to rev past 3500rpm by using light throttle? does it only bog under full throttle or at any throttle opening? Are you sure you installed the pertronix correctly? 

 

Do a plug chop... drive with it at the point that it starts to stall, then push in the clutch and kill the motor at the same time. pull a plug and see its color. 

 

Don't ever feel you are "too young to understand carbs"... I am 19, and I rebuilt my first carb when I was 10, without a schematic or anyone to show me how. They are just the same as any other part in a car; a bunch of parts that when adjusted properly perform as intended (in this case, providing the correct amount of fuel). People have this idea that adjusting carbs is some kind of black art... the notion comes from a lack of cheap affordable AFM's when carbs were first around and as a result it took a very experienced mechanic to be able to get carbs exactly right. Getting a ballpark idea is easy with plug chops, but without an AFM or wideband getting consistant fueling is hard. With a wideband it is just as easy to tune a carb as it is to tune an efi system... just instead of clicking on your mouse you are turning a few screws and replacing jets. 

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It stall under all conditions.  No load or load.  Whatever I set the timing to (playing around with it)  It will stall at the same rpm under load or not.  for ex:  set to 2500 it will stall at around 3k, or set to 1200 and will almost stall immediately when touching the throttle.  I cannot get it past 3500 rpm unless i have it timed all the way up there, which is obviously wrong.  Just FYI I do seem to get a little more rpm play with higher timing, like theh example above. 

 

I have checked it with a timing light and it is around 23ish or so before i started to play around with it.  This is when it is a 1200rpm and then the above situation happens.

 

I am pretty sure I have the petronix hooked up correctly.  Pretty much the only thing i think that can go wrong is gapping it wrong and i double checked it when i did it.

 

And too young to understand carbs is a joke. :P   Just lack of experience with carbs, but im getting better with this old baby!!!  I am in a way happy i have this issue.  good learning experience with old style set ups.

 

Thank you for your input and i will do my best to do a plug chop tomorrow.  Dont have the right spark plug socket at home.

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If adjusting timing helps the issue, then it is likely timing related. You shouldn't be setting the timing in the way you are... it's bad for the engine and can cause detonation and other issues. 

 

Let the engine warm up, turn the idle screw in until it is constant at 1400rpm. Make sure you don't have a vacuum line hooked up to the distributor. the timing ball should show up at 1400rpm. Tighten the distributor down. Start here; you could probably advance it later on, but this is the point you need to start at. How does it drive now? 

 

If it is still crap, I get the feeling that your distributor might not be advancing, hence why you are able to set the timing at higher rpms without any adverse affects (e.g. putting a hole in your piston). 

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daron do not worry about questions this is all good for you to know and a good learning experience =)

 

I am running 91 Octane, not sure if California octane ratings are different than Colorados.  My fuel pump is a Carter brand, also in the kit with the 45s.  But I am almost pretty sure it is not a fuel starvation issue.  Checked through fuel filters at rear and front and both full all the time.

 

But MAJOR UPDATE!!!

 

Earlier this evening 7:30 Pacific, I decided to start from scratch at least timing wise. I mustve moved it since I have slightly snugged it down and i currently cover the car with the hood off, but now hood is on.  It was wayyyy off.  So I have it currently around 13* BTDC but the idle is around 2000rpm.  It now revs like it is supposed to so it is a start, with not stumbling or backfiring.  I feel I have adjusted the carbs with this screwed up timing so that may be why its idling high.  So I will start with adjusting those tomorrow.  So when all the idle screws are roughly set to where they need to be, I will be able to increase the timing more than 13BTDC obviously.  But at least I know now that my dizzy can temporarily work until I get my mech one, and that I assembled the engine correctly :D   Now to spend more time learning about carbs.

 

You guys are very helpful!!!

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The current distributor should work well enough despite being a vacuum advance type; they will advance without vacuum. 

 

2000rpm is too high. 1400rpm, make it spot on. use a timing light that DOES NOT have a dial to set in advance. You need an oldschool fixed timing light; those are the most accurate kind. Make sure all of your plugs are properly gapped and that you have the plug leads in the correct orientation. How is your coil? a worn coil can cause many of the problems you are describing. Measure the resistance in it and check that it is within spec. If you don't know how to do that, do a search on the site or on google and learn how :)

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