engine and drivetrain M10 turbo build, and Megasquirt advice for same

[djdawson2]

Hi,

I'm new to this list, but have been using it as a resource for a while... great info from you all.

I'm building a turbo engine for my 2002. It is going to be 84x90 using an S14 crank. I plan to use flat top pistons and a 318i head for an appropriate turbo engine compression ratio.

I'm also considering using Megasquirt for my engine management.

I'm seeking guidance/help in a couple of areas.

First, I need to try and source an exhaust manifold. I'm not terribly interested in the ones on Ebay, as I'd prefer that my turbo is not located so close to the front sheet metal.

Second, I'm looking for guidance on the use of MS on a turbo M10 engine. What I'm really looking for is a good base map for tuning. I'd rather not start from scratch. Any other input also welcome.

Any help or guidance appreciated.

I've included a picture of the project car for fun.

Thanks,

Dave

[Rocan]

Beautiful car!

My recommendation: find someone local who knows turbos and injection systems really really well before you start any work. Also, read a lot. If you need to ask for a base map, there is no way you can do a megasquirt + turbo first shot by yourself without breaking something expensive.

First set up what you currently have on megasquirt BEFORE going turbo. get used to the system, get a proper tune, and learn to trouble shoot. Then build the motor and alter the tune for the built motor. Once you have all of the bugs sorted without having the added complications of boost, then you can piece together a turbo setup. Once you have a good base tune, tuning for boost is a matter of gradually adding boost (a few psi at a time) and tuning gradually, adding fuel and retarding spark (if necessary) to get things back in shape. Set yourself a goal for boost, slowly tune up to that level, and go no further unless if you are 100% sure the motor can take it. boost is addictive!

[Colin]

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,0/page,viewtopic/t,373796/sid,dca5c0a37bb909f4744fa7a48eefb1db/

[djdawson2]

Thanks, Colin. I actually read your entire thread before posting. I may have missed it, but I didn't see anything about turbo applications.

However, your info looks extremely helpful, and will certainly be a resource I use.

Thanks

[djdawson2]

Rocan,

Thanks for the input. I'm not actually a turbo virgin... I've been playing with turbo Audis for years. The difference being that I can get into, tune, then reflash the OE ECU. So I do know what AFRs and timing numbers I should be looking for without going overboard.

I suppose even with a reasonably good NA file, I could begin with minimal boost and start my adjustments.

Here's one of my past Audi projects... a 2.2 liter Audi that puts out over 440whp.

Thanks

[kenped86]

I owned a turbo e30 for several years and e30tech.com was always a great resource. Turbo M10s are still scarce but theres some info. You can always DIY with a plate and some bends to put the turbo exactly where you want it. Top end performance sells a cast turbo manifold. And there are plenty of forum members that would make or sell you one.

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98589&page=3

Just make sure that after you browse over there you report back your findings here

[Rocan]

Rocan,

Thanks for the input. I'm not actually a turbo virgin... I've been playing with turbo Audis for years. The difference being that I can get into, tune, then reflash the OE ECU. So I do know what AFRs and timing numbers I should be looking for without going overboard.

I suppose even with a reasonably good NA file, I could begin with minimal boost and start my adjustments.

Here's one of my past Audi projects... a 2.2 liter Audi that puts out over 440whp.

Thanks

okay! That's good to hear. I always stay on the cautious side when giving advice to people if I don't know their past experience. Clearly you know enough to do this.

The link above is a great resource. Searching around on google should find you a base map that can get you close, and you can work from there. I still recommend tuning incrementally. Even an experienced tuner can wreck a motor pretty quickly because of something unforseen. I knew a guy who more or less destroyed a freshly built engine because he tuned for a lot more boost right off the bat; he had the experience and knowledge to know how much fuel to add for the extra boost he was planning and he tuned accordingly, despite warning the owner that they should tune in increments. Long story short, even though the map and everything was all good, he ended up not getting enough fuel at all because the fuel filter the owner had installed didn't have nearly enough flow for the fuel pressure they needed. the problem would have shown up at way less fuel pressure and the owners impatience ended up costing him a lot.

I'd say if you have a good base map and put on a turbo, you can start with around 5psi of boost after dumping an extra 40% of fuel across the board and adjusting from there. That figure is clearly on the rich side, but better rich than lean.

[djdawson2]

Long story short, even though the map and everything was all good, he ended up not getting enough fuel at all because the fuel filter the owner had installed didn't have nearly enough flow for the fuel pressure they needed. the problem would have shown up at way less fuel pressure and the owners impatience ended up costing him a lot.

All good points, and sadly, I've seen that done as well. The worst was a fully AEM equipped Audi I-5... must've been 30k under the hood, and it was scrap after a single dyno "tuning" session.

I put my own blood, sweat and tears into building my own engines - so I will be cautious!!!

kenped86: Thanks for the linky... I will explore.

[littleguyschultz]

Is this the turbo stuff i saw for sale on CL??

I saw your car on I70 back on Jan 20th while I was driving my e28 535i-- you were roaring up the hill behind me before you exited towards Evergreen-- car looked great!

[djdawson2]

Is this the turbo stuff i saw for sale on CL??

I saw your car on I70 back on Jan 20th while I was driving my e28 535i-- you were roaring up the hill behind me before you exited towards Evergreen-- car looked great!

I don't know about the CL stuff. Small world. I have a weak spot for the E28's, I've owned several. I do recall the drive... a little break in the weather allowed me to take a joy ride to run the '02 out of gas before pulling it apart!!

[littleguyschultz]

Very cool!

Well maybe I can meet you this meet in Castle Rock on Sunday March 3rd (most recent details on pg 4):

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1950139

It would be great to see your car up close.

Currently working on putting together a '74 2002--- Have the tii motor, converting it from an auto back to a 4 speed, gotta decide on shocks/ springs and wheels. Wish I had some nice E21 recaro's right about now!

Either way, here's some E28 eye candy for you!

[djdawson2]

Thanks for adding your E28 pictures... those are both great looking cars.

I won't be able to make a 3/3 event due to business travel. I'll try and keep my eye out for the next opportunity, as I'd like to meet some of the local BMW geeks.

As far as seeing the car now... well, it's going to take some time. It's currently pulled apart. I'm stripping and refinishing the underbody, powdercoating subframes, suspension parts etc... Plus, there will be the engine rebuild project before it will move again. Actually, not a rebuild - a completely different engine. My tii engine is fresh and a perfect runner, so it will be removed and sit on a stand, in case there's ever a desire to return to stock.

The body and paint is going to be reshot. While the car's rust issues were handled, and the body is straight, it was very poorly shot. The bodyshop has agreed to do it over again this spring, once I get it back on the road. I won't be slamming the bodyshop until they've had the chance to get it right. If they're good to their word, that'll be preferable. If not, it will get ugly for them. They have the capacity to do some great work, and I've seen it. They just blew it on my car.