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Brake Booster and Weber DCOE 40 Clearence


willie002

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That's how we all do it.

 

Not really, a number of us just use thinner nuts rather than thinning the metal right there.  And removing the airhorns in favor of a ramflow filter kills air-flow velocity (and power), it's definitely a noticeable difference.

 

 

IE manifold with DCOE45's full stack clearance with Tii booster.

 

photo_zps5883c174.jpeg

 

photo-1_zps6c6a34b4.jpeg

 

Another like Ryan's .... IE manifold and angeled velocity stacks with DCOE40's.  No issue with stock booster.  

 

IMG_0825sm_zps6a8c9507.jpg

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MMMm those all look great guys! Had I have known I would have pieced the kit together myself and gone with the IE manifold. But I wanted a kit that was already put together so I wouldn't have to spend lots of time researching each and every component I needed as I am new to 2002 stuff. But the manifold is the one regret so far because I really wanted more clearance to keep the trumpets. 

 

 

I called them back today actually at first wanting to swap my order from the ramflos to the clip on filters as I had an idea of shortening trumpet #3 myself. However. today the actual 02 guy was in and was the one I spoke with and he assured me the ramflow would both fit, and was actually the best flowing option. He also stated the trumpet filters don't filter as well and are mainly for show cars not daily drivers. So I kept the order as it was. 

 

 

 

And removing the airhorns in favor of a ramflow filter kills air-flow velocity (and power)

 

How big of a difference are we talking? :( Also did you convert between the two and feel the hp difference on your car, or did you compare between cars? 

 

Don't get me wrong I think the trumpets and individual filters looks WAaaaaaay better! And that was how I wanted to make this build.  BUT thinking about it, what they were saying does make sense.  To illustrate the point I'm about to make, id rather draw from something I'm more familiar with. So think about a normal fuel injected/modern car for a moment. 

 

Random picture to get idea across:

KN_69-8001_Lg.jpg

If you were to take off the cone air filter and just put in one chuck of foam in the middle of the intake piping (internally positioned -same diameter as piping), you would be forcing ALL air taken into the engine to pass through that one piece of filter of given diameter. 

 

Why might that be detrimental? And more to the point, why do cold air intake manufacturers emphasize the importance and improvements one gains with LARGE filter surface area? 

 

Well its simple, the same amount of air that would, in the case given above, be forced to pass  through only a small amount of filter ( forced to be moved at higher speeds through the actual filter itself ,to still provide the engine with the air it needs -- one creates greater strain and resistance to air moment) now can be drawn through much more surface area, thus easing the ability of air to be filtered as it may be drawn in more slowly per given unit of filter area. This also creates a sort of air reservoir so to speak. 

 

This same logic would be directly applicable to to our case here between the stack based snap on screens or the Larger domed Ramflos.

 

***Also I would think there might also be a cleaning benefit too as a bit of junk on the small filters means a lot more restriction than the same amount of junk on a large Ramflow

 

Is this reasoning correct? 

 

 

Though ideally if space were no concern you would still want long trumpets to aid in a more homogeneously directed air flow, and then have a large domed filter over those to get the best of both worlds. :D

Edited by crochetg
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crochetg:

 

You're gonna have to go get use to nothing being really 'bolt-on,' or 'plug-in-play' on these cars.  Even stuff from major suppliers will often need modified a good bit to work.  Sometimes drilling/grinding/welding is necessary, and its assumed that you can do it. 

These cars are old, there are tons of variations, there aren't that many parts suppliers, and most customers/02 owners have a high skill level and tolerance for 'figuring out how to make it work.' 

Bring a Welder

1974 2002, 1965 Datsun L320 truck, 1981 Yamaha XS400, 1983 Yamaha RX50, 1992 Miata Miata drivetrain waiting on a Locost frame, 1999 Toyota Land Cruiser

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crochetg:   You're gonna have to go get use to nothing being really 'bolt-on,' or 'plug-in-play' on these cars.  Even stuff from major suppliers will often need modified a good bit to work.  Sometimes drilling/grinding/welding is necessary, and its assumed that you can do it.  These cars are old, there are tons of variations, there aren't that many parts suppliers, and most customers/02 owners have a high skill level and tolerance for 'figuring out how to make it work.' 

 

^Words of wisdom^

 

That is very truthful KFunk, and certainly something I'm coming to realize more and more. 

Practically anytime I get my hands dirty working on it some sort of fabrication / modification to make things work is needed. I should have figured so with this intake as well.

 

 

I suppose the reason I was slightly agitated with the supplier is that, unlike other components on the car thus far, this was a big ticket item being over a grand, and one justifies paying the high prices in exchange for the convenience of receiving a well thought out kit free of obvious design flaws that hinder its installation. Surely had they placed  the kit they sell on a 2002 themselves they would be like "ohh wait one moment, its impossible to even bolt this on the way it is, we should move the hole down 1/4 inch, etc."  

 

 

But it still does get you a bit further perhaps in that it has gotten me past the hurdles of piecing a kit together bit by bit  myself.  Of course like you said, we are a small group and many things we order aren't as streamlined and perfected as more common car aftermarket parts would be. 

 

I'm still learning, and have much much more to learn :)

But this 02 has definitely stolen my heart! Glad to be part of the 02 club finally!

Edited by crochetg
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Though ideally if space were no concern you would still want long trumpets to aid in a more homogeneously directed air flow, and then have a large domed filter over those to get the best of both worlds. :D

 

Your reasoning is correct, however as you pointed out the elephant in the room is that the velocity stacks are left off in the case of a ram-flow filter.  

 

The same reasoning holds true with the sock-style filters pictures above + you get the benefit of velocity stacks + you get added runner length (if you're using angeled velocity stacks).  http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/2002-fuel-intake/DCOEfltr.html

 

and yes the difference is noticeable but that is relative.

Edited by AceAndrew
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do they backfire off :huh: 

I would love some straight trumpets however,the socks used/required for a 100,200,300 mile a week on the california frwy system would mostlikey be just as choke-ing as a ramflow.

I tuned my 40's with no filters/short horns via afr innovate mosports,and putting a ramflow filter set on was like plugging the carbs with both hands(VERYRESRICTIVE).,

But then again atleast I know I wont suck a f-ing couch or wood pallet in that someone dissowned.

Edited by ndog
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Test fitting angled DCOE velocity stacks w/filters with std. booster. Should be ready very soon.

20130206_143309_zps0ece8c46.jpg

foam=foamrestictionperiod

after the engine sucks air from the foam, i dont know if it would have the velocity to make these work

please let us know what the delta V is on these great horns

Edited by ndog
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For the modifying non-TI cars equipped with standard 2002 brake booster with their A1 Kit Alpina did it that way:

 

post-36854-0-95653100-1377762692_thumb.j

post-36854-0-20025000-1377762710_thumb.j

 

Curved tubes connect the carbs with the triangular air collector. Custom air filter in engine compartment not original on the photo. Originally Alpina drilled a hole through the front panel which led the hose besides the front light to collect the cool air there for engine´s breathing. Keep an eye on the flattened spots on the curved tubes - they´re for brake booster clearance. Additionally not original on this car: Brake booster repositioned a bit more forward with NK parts - not needed for mounting the Alpina kit, don´t know why done on this car.

 

Concerning air flow this kit isn´t an ideal solution. As it was meant for the small A1 kit only (standard 2-litre engine with just dual sidedraft carbs Weber or Solex, 115hp) it didn´t matter that much. If you try to mount the kit on a further tuned up engine it handicaps the max. power output.

But as for Germany from 120hp up the big brakes from TI/tii were mandatory to get the car street legal the then-mounted tii brake booster allowed the use of the non-US 2002TI air filter housing in a slightly modified Alpina way (no side caps, every metal inside the middle part cut out, long threaded rod with two plates screwed at the ends and big NK air filters) for the Alpina models A2, A2/S and A3..

 

post-36854-0-45213200-1377764242_thumb.j

 

Attention: Air filter housing on this picture has the four tubes connecting with the carbs going out straight. This will only fit NK 4-door and 2000CS Coupe. For 02 use the type with the angled tubes needed:

 

post-36854-0-79558100-1377764400_thumb.j

 

And I agree that what you call ramflo filters (we say K+N over here http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=56-1270 ) mounted directly on the carbs without velocity stacks will not be positive for the airflow and will limit possible power output.

 

Best regards, Lars.

Edited by LarsAlpina

Ei guude wie? (Spoken as "I gooooda weee" and hessian idiom for "Hi, how are you?")

 

Já nevím, možná zítra.

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Test fitting angled DCOE velocity stacks w/filters with std. booster. Should be ready very soon.20130206_143309_zps0ece8c46.jpg

I have a pair of Dellorto DHLA 40 carbs that would LOVE to have these.... Any news on availability?

1975 Polaris 2002 (RAT 02E), 1962 mini Cooper S

1994 Land Cruiser - expedition vehicle, 2012 VW Touareg TDI.
2002 restoration blog - http://rato2e.blogspot.com/

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Unfortunately, IE's site lists the angled horns as currently out of stock. I'm hoping they'll be available in 45mm flavor as well, with trumpets to put the angels of Armageddon to shame. Doo doo do doooooo!! All hail the king!!

williamggruff

'76 2002 "Verona" / '12 Fiat 500 Sport "Latte" / '21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off Road Prem “The Truck”

 

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they have been listed on the IE website for a while now.

http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/2002-fuel-intake/DCOEvelstk40.html

Out of Stock.  I PM'd Andrew asking for an update...

1975 Polaris 2002 (RAT 02E), 1962 mini Cooper S

1994 Land Cruiser - expedition vehicle, 2012 VW Touareg TDI.
2002 restoration blog - http://rato2e.blogspot.com/

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Out of Stock.  I PM'd Andrew asking for an update...

 

I've haven't been in the office very much the last week or so.  Been working on something kind of neat.  The 45's stacks and restocking the 40's took back burner as we finished a new M20 header.  Now the focus is back on the horns (and a COMPLETE kit listing).

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