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Guest gliding_serpent

Tii engine rebuild post failure. Photos update!

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Guest gliding_serpent

Driving the 73 2002 Tii (dual webbers) after a new thermostat was put in. Driven 1.5 hours on the highway with no issues. Drove it to work and back the next day again (spirited back road driving) with no issues. I drove it again the next night, let it warm up, gave it a good go on some back roads up to 70mph. Thermo was right in the middle. A couple times brought it up to to 5500-6k before shifting. I started up a long slow incline (2km maybe, up to 4k revs) and by the end of the incline the engine was just below redline for temp. Took it easy and thought I heard ping under acceleration. Quiet jingling sound on acceleration. On the downhill I suddenly heard and felt a not terribly loud or jarring "vooom" and white smoke came out the back. but I could feel a power loss so I lifted and pulled over and turned it off. Rad was hot but touchable.

Got it on a flatbed and to a shop (Halifax, N.S. Canada). They had given a workover and checkup the week prior and replaced the thermostat. They have not yet taken the head off.

They see:

- blue smoke at idle

- what they think is piston slap of cylinder #1 (definitely metal to metal)

- crank case is pressurized

- oil cap and dipstick pressurized

- compression is as follows #1 72psi, #2 72psi, #3 80psi, #4 108 psi. (they said normal should be 135-150psi)

The head will likely come off tomorrow to find the true extent of the damage and they will check for oil pump failure also. They suspect valvetrain issues, piston ring failure among other things. New piston and re-honing the block may be part of the deal and maybe more.

1. Any thoughts on the diagnosis/cause so far? I will report back when I know more so it can be a competition.

2. I will be looking for an estimate, any thoughts on worst case and best case. I fear the "while you are in there" game. I need some ammo to know if I am getting ripped off or not.

3. No I don't plan to point the fingers at the shop for their work. But I may look elsewhere.

Thanks for any advice. Was planning on getting the KF put back on... but not this soon, and not with all of this hassle on top. I suspect a full rebuild coming up with 5-10K in costs.

UPDATE: IN an attempt to be constructive for future searchers... here are a few resources for parts and some info:

I have had two quite general quotes that talk about a top and bottom end rebuild including machining going for about 2K labor (take that with a grain of salt). Parts extra, and I won't know the extent of that until I bite the bullet and crack open the engine.

parts source in AZ with specifics for the Tii. Some OEM, others not.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/category.aspx?sid=oiylcjug5bnwsin2w10s1lri&[email protected]&year=1973&[email protected]

I doubt I can afford to rebuild the KF now, but Jaymic in England will do the pump for about 800-900 pounds if my memory serves me right for their catalog. They also have OEM and NLA parts for the 2002.

http://www.jaymic.com/classicbmw/default.asp

ProBimmer in CA will bench test, rebuild and calibrate pump for $1150.00. They can rebuild, calibrate and test the warm up regulator for $695. Normally they do an exchange with a rebuildable system (as does Jaymic), but are willing to send the same one back if it is rebuildable.

http://www.probimmer.com/Kugelfischer.php

Ireland Engineering Motorsports in CA is also another well known source for parts including engine and valvetrain. 625$ for a set of custom forged pistons for the M10 engine for example. I will also get a KF rebuild quote and guidance on a rebuild kit.

http://www.bmw2002.com/

http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/2002-engine.html

http://www.iemotorsport.com/bmw/2002-valvetrain.html

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How much coolant did they find in the motor when you took it to the shop? How many miles on the motor?

Based on the compression numbers, you're starting over. Good news is, you can put the MFI back in place as you put everything back together.

Good luck!

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Guest gliding_serpent

~100 k miles. Only crime would be not driving it enough.

Not sure of the coolant. I remember steam coming from it however now that you mention it.

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Only crime would be not driving it enough

Any thoughts on the diagnosis/cause so far?

brought it up to to 5500-6k

Maybe a little too much right foot for 100k

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Guest gliding_serpent

double post

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Guest gliding_serpent
Only crime would be not driving it enough

Any thoughts on the diagnosis/cause so far?

brought it up to to 5500-6k

Maybe a little too much right foot for 100k

That is a given. But the age of the car/parts was probably the limiting factor combined with the foot.

100K is not bad for a modern car.

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Guest gliding_serpent

Too busy at work today to get the full scoop on the car (that and the shop is not done pricing a new box engine or the rebuild estimates), but I am planning for a complete rebuild including the KF. Starting the process of sourcing. I have a CA and an England source for KF rebuild for around 1K each (I want to avoid an exchange however). Staying more local for the engine... got one estimate for 2k service + parts, more depending on severity of damage.

Parts sources and words of wisdom are always appreciated.

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Guest gliding_serpent
If you decide to bail on the side drafts, I might be interested in the set-up. E-mail me.

Daron

I will keep you posted.

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Guest gliding_serpent
Oh man... we all feel your pain. This could happen to any one of us.

True. Old cars come with risks. But then if you don;t have some fun you should probably just drive a prius. I just need to keep telling myself that one as I shell out the big bucks for the rebuild...

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I'm not a pro, but I'd imagine that the temperature running an RCH from the red before it blew up isn't a coincidence, so I'd wager the head gasket went and/or the head cracked. The white smoke out the tailpipe is indicative of antifreeze being burned. Maybe the Automotive Powers That Be will smile on you, you'll get lucky, and it's all top end damage.

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Guest gliding_serpent

I hope you are right. Smoke is blue however so likely oil. Also, there is a definite metal on metal sound of cylinder #1.

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Guest gliding_serpent

The engine has been torn down. Good news is that water and fuel pump are great, as is the top end. No cracked head. As suspected cylinder and piston #1 is quite scored. Will need to bore an estimated 2 sizes. The crank looks great.

http://imageshack.us/a/img831/8050/imagetxyw.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/photo/560/imagezmy.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/a/img690/2540/imagedaox.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img189/2561/imageeqky.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/9669/imagesbv.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img694/2315/imageuwm.jpg

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I recently had my stroker M10 rebuilt.

Bottom end (M10 block with M3 crank):

Block cleaned, magnafluxed and pressure tested.

No line bore needed, just a hone.

Pistons (92mm JE forged aluminum) were in good shape.

New Total Seal rings.

Bottom end bearings.

Block decked, along with lower timing cover.

Crank got spin balanced (after repair, which I'm not including in the cost as it's irrelevant to your case) with the flywheel.

Rotating parts balanced and machined as necessary.

Rods, crank magnafluxed.

Machining and installation of the crank, bearings, rods, pistons and rings.

Head (E12):

Head cleaned and pressure tested.

All valves and valve seals replaced, 3-angle grind.

Head milled, along with upper timing cover.

Accoutrements:

Full gasket set, oil pump chain, timing chain, timing chain guides, front and rear main seals, custom Cometic head gasket.

Machinist reassembled bottom end, I reassembled the rest.

Cost of the above was around $2600, not including elbow grease and RTV. Don't even ask what I spent on other absurdities "while I was in there."

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