Kugelfischer suction valve questions

[Friedrich]

We are trying to resurrect Friedrich, an early 72 tii recently rescued from 10 years languishing in the AZ desert and just arrived in Dayton OH. After having the tank cleaned, replacing fuel supply hoses, installing a supply pump and now getting fuel to the injection pump, I now have a few questions that require intimate knowledge of the KF pump. I have removed and cleaned the 4 delivery valves. Next removed the 4 inline hex plugs and removed the suction valves to soak them. Even though I have the official BMW tii injection system service manual, it had been years since I had worked on a KF pump and forgot about the footnote NOT to use a magnet to extract the suction valves. Of course, I used a magnet to get them out and later saw the footnote. I don't have the brass tweezers they recommend. My first question is, does anyone really KNOW how the pump can be "damaged" by the use of a magnet?

After removing the hex plugs and the suction valves and examining for crud below the valves I discovered by accident that there were sealing washers BELOW the valves. My discovery came about because I had used a magnet to pull the valves up through the threaded bores for the hex plugs and the sealing washers were dangling from the suction valves by magnetic attraction. I would have guessed they were aluminum crush washers but they're not, they are steel. My second question is, do they belong below the suction valves or is it possible the last person assembled it wrong and they should go between the hex plugs and the top surface of the valves? The ETK shows part #s for the plugs, o rings and suction valves but nothing below that. I guess they don't want you in any deeper than that.

For informational purposes, I am a BMW tech and shop owner, member of BIMRS.ORG and have raced a 2002 (carbed) in ITB & CCA. This car came to us without an electric pump, fuel accumulator and suspension bracket so I will be looking for those items. I have temporarily adapted a VW Type III electric pump which is nearly identical to the OEM supply pump for now in an attempt to bring Friedrich back to life.

You can follow the adventure on his facebook page "Friedrich Hagen Finke".

BTW, this is my first post to the FAQ.........thanks for the help

Friedrich's Dad

[02fanatic]

Sounds familiar.....found my "Hugo" (tii #129) in need of some "love" too about 11 years ago. One of the first things I did was put new suction valve o-rings in....actually, I got the engine to start right up, but it's quite common for the o-rings to crack from drying out on a non-running engine and then leak fuel out the top when running.

I don't recall removing anything but the top plugs and replacing the o-rings....it's generally a no-no to mess with the internals anywhere on a Kugelfischer! I've never had any problems. Kugelfischer pumps are rather bulletproof "until" you start messing around "inside"!

There are only a handfull of qualified techs in the USA who really know how to properly rebuild a K-Pump. I wouldn't touch the internals personally. But, installing new o-rings is easy, but still you need to be extremely careful to not let any dirt, etc. get in there when opened up.

Good Luck bringing it back!

John

[JerryC]

If the engine won't start, check the cold start valve on top of the throttle body. You can activate it by applying 12V across the terminals. If it doesn't spray, the engine will be very hard to start when cold.

I think if you search the archives you can find one or two tear-down write ups from several years back. One in particular that I recall was someone discovered lots of goopy sludge in the bottom of the KF that he removed, and another freed up a stuck tappet. I recollect something about a spring being in there on the cam follower plate that might surprise you when the top comes off.

Don't know about the magnet warning.

Good Luck!

[mihajlo]

I was in a similar situation in March. Check out this thread and it may help you: http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,57/page,viewtopic/t,353166/highlight,/

To add to that thread - an additional problem was that two of the internal pistons in the fuel injection pump were stuck. I followed the instructions I found on the board and tapped them lightly. I removed the suction valves, poured some Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) in and my helper noticed that the fluid wasn't bubbling in two of the chambers after rocking the car back and forth while in gear (the movement is ever so slight). So I just tapped them lightly with a wooden skewer and sure enough that loosened them up. Just soaking MMO overnight wasn't enough to free them.

It has been a couple of months - but I'm still chasing down issues - my current problem is a warm-up regulator that doesn't open past 5 mm or so. So once you get through these initial bugs, be prepared for more debugging.

[suntex01]

Sounds familiar.....found my "Hugo" (tii #129) in need of some "love" too about 11 years ago. One of the first things I did was put new suction valve o-rings in....actually, I got the engine to start right up, but it's quite common for the o-rings to crack from drying out on a non-running engine and then leak fuel out the top when running.

John

Anybody know where I can get some new O-rings for the suction valve?

My K-pump is leaking fuel out the top and any help would be great!.

Thanks

[MikeWooldridge]

I have used air conditioning "green" O rings with satisfaction.