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73 tii kugelfischer pump (nt)


gregb

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Ray, thanks for posting the link to the Bill Williams article, I had not seen that before. Now I know what a Kugel is!

This past weekend I did a lot of work on my '73 KF system and will post when I get time. Briefly (1) part of intermediate throttle shaft broke and replaced with another; (2) warm-up regulator threaded cap backed out for the second time and this time came completely off. Took me over 4 hours to get it back on; (3) combined parts of three tii throttle bodies to make one good one. My throttle body with 340,000+ miles on it was *very* worn out. Will post pics when I get a chance.

Related to above post, I neglected to measure height of warm up regulator hat before I took it off, and I don't have the setting tool. When I started the engine it was hunting as above, so I just adjusted the hat by hand until it ran smooth. Fortunately warm-up regulator seems to be working fine after partial disassembly, air cone comes up when warm. Hitting track this weekend and am interested to see if any change in power or throttle response with rebuilt throttle body.

Best, Fred '74tii

--Fred

'74tii (Colorado) track car

'69ti (Black/Red/Yellow) rolling resto track car

'73tii (Fjord....RIP)

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Hi Fred,

Looks like you're on track (not that anyone answered your initial question!).

Are you sure you didn't create a vacuum leak at the throttle body or elsewhere which is causing the surging?

Cheers,

Ray

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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Jerry: While I have always heard the bushings wear on the throttle body what I saw was that the linkage shaft itself (not the throttle plate shaft) was very worn. I took the best shaft of three (the other two had some wear but much less) and used that in my best spare (least play) throttle body. I was able to clean it up and the throttle plate moves freely. Used the best of my shims on the throttle shaft. They hold the throttle plate toward the bottom of the body so it does not bind when going to closed throttle. Again, will post pics and specs likely next week.

Ray: I am not the OP, so don't recall asking a specific question. The only opportunity for a new vacuum leak would be R&R of the throttle body. I used a new gasket, should be fine. And, was able to fix the hunt by adjusting the warm up hat. As far as i can tell all that really matters (for me) is that the warm-up grub screw (the do-not-touch screw?) contact the stop when the engine is warm. I had the lever that holds the grub screw off and realized the warm-up lever connects to a shaft that regulates fuel load. Clear now from the Kugel post as well. For track use as long I can start the engine and get it up to temp I am good to go. No more starting in Boston winter's to go ice racing for this car.

Greg: here is an article i found some time ago that may help answer your question on the correct pump for a 1973tii:

----------------------------------------------------

Kugelfisher Injection Pump Technical Operations and History

Published 12/24/2009

Orignal article by: Jeff Mulchahey

It strikes me that some confusion exists over exactly which Kugelfischer mechanical injection pumps were used on which models of cars and in which market.

First, the 2 liter engine with mechanical fuel injection vas used in several cars which we really newer saw in this country.

Aside from the ’02 series, what we know as the tii motor BMW also used in the older 2000 sedan and the first 5-series body.

Here is a partial breakdown on which cars used which pump, excluding limited rarities such as Alpina, racing, or Turbo derivatives.

Model Pump Designation Kugelfischer Number

1969-71 2000tii PL04-124.01 A-1 & A- 2 92 004 010 (V7 cam)

1971 2000tii and PL04-124.01 B-1 or 92 004 011 (V7 cam)

1972- 73 2002tii PL04-124.01 C-1 92 004 012 (V7 cam)

1974 2002tii(USA) PL04-124.02 A-1 92 004 020 (V6 cam)

The early cars utilized a slightly different throttle linkage arrangement which lead to the A-series pumps not being interchangeable with the B-series or later pumps. The later (i.e. 1974) USA market cars utilized a pump (124.02) which contained a different fuel delivery cam (see below). Interestingly, my 1976 hard copy parts books shows that the early European and USA cars used the same pump 13 51 1 256 536 (BMW number, new parts only are listed here-not AT or Yl numbers) which is superseded to 13 51 1 259 887. This 887 pump is listed for European only models while the later ’74 USA cars used the unique number 1351 1 259 535. However, my 11/85 microfiche shows only the 13 51 1 259 882 part (the AT version of the 887 part) and the 13 51 1 259 535 part as being available, with the former applied to European models and the latter applied to US models.

Two things become apparent from this. First is that the earlier USA market cars carried the same injection pump as did their European contemporaries. To support this, a local 1972 USA market tii carries a pump labeled PL04-124.01 B-1 and 92 004 011 and Chris Achleithner tells me that the 92 004 Oil pump is the prevalent version in Bavaria. Second, I conclude that the pump shown currently as the European pump is functionally the same as the early USA pump with the V7 cam while the “current” USA pump (259 535) is in fact the later USA version. According to Kugelfischer literature, the 124.01 At and A2 pumps differed from later pumps insofar as a running change occurred in the throttle body which made those pumps incompatible with the later throttle bodies due to alterations in the cam which complement changes to the throttle. pump with the V6 cam. My 11/73 microfiche for the 2000tii agrees with the 1976 2002 book. I further suggest that although the above information on pump designation vas obtained from Kugelfischer publications and shows that the various pump had differing designations at Kugelfischer, BMW AG considered all the 124.01 pumps to be functionally identical except the 1974.

I have included as figures a copy of a graph by Dave Redszus which was published in a previous tii Register Newsletter. In it, Dave shows fuel delivery profiles for the V6 and V7 pump cams. The positions P1, P2, P3, and P4 correspond to the idle, low partial throttle, high partial throttle, and full throttle pin settings at the enrichment lever on the engine-side of the pump. The V6 cam vas used on the 1974 models while the V7 cam vas used on earlier cars. Recall that the 1974 USA cars had to meet more stringent exhaust gas emission standards and that most of the emission tests were done at idle and under part throttle acceleration. This probably explains why the V6 cam is leaner than the V7 cam at low speeds. As discussed above, it appears that all the tii pumps except the 1974 USA pump used the V7 fuel profile while the 1974 USA pump used the V6 cam.

----------------------------------------------------

Best, Fred

post-16466-13667646192198_thumb.jpg

--Fred

'74tii (Colorado) track car

'69ti (Black/Red/Yellow) rolling resto track car

'73tii (Fjord....RIP)

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  • 5 weeks later...
Jerry: While I have always heard the bushings wear on the throttle body what I saw was that the linkage shaft itself (not the throttle plate shaft) was very worn. I took the best shaft of three (the other two had some wear but much less) and used that in my best spare (least play) throttle body. I was able to clean it up and the throttle plate moves freely. Used the best of my shims on the throttle shaft. They hold the throttle plate toward the bottom of the body so it does not bind when going to closed throttle. Again, will post pics and specs likely next week.

Ray: I am not the OP, so don't recall asking a specific question. The only opportunity for a new vacuum leak would be R&R of the throttle body. I used a new gasket, should be fine. And, was able to fix the hunt by adjusting the warm up hat. As far as i can tell all that really matters (for me) is that the warm-up grub screw (the do-not-touch screw?) contact the stop when the engine is warm. I had the lever that holds the grub screw off and realized the warm-up lever connects to a shaft that regulates fuel load. Clear now from the Kugel post as well. For track use as long I can start the engine and get it up to temp I am good to go. No more starting in Boston winter's to go ice racing for this car.

Greg: here is an article i found some time ago that may help answer your question on the correct pump for a 1973tii:

----------------------------------------------------

Kugelfisher Injection Pump Technical Operations and History

Published 12/24/2009

Orignal article by: Jeff Mulchahey

It strikes me that some confusion exists over exactly which Kugelfischer mechanical injection pumps were used on which models of cars and in which market.

First, the 2 liter engine with mechanical fuel injection vas used in several cars which we really newer saw in this country.

Aside from the ’02 series, what we know as the tii motor BMW also used in the older 2000 sedan and the first 5-series body.

Here is a partial breakdown on which cars used which pump, excluding limited rarities such as Alpina, racing, or Turbo derivatives.

Model Pump Designation Kugelfischer Number

1969-71 2000tii PL04-124.01 A-1 & A- 2 92 004 010 (V7 cam)

1971 2000tii and PL04-124.01 B-1 or 92 004 011 (V7 cam)

1972- 73 2002tii PL04-124.01 C-1 92 004 012 (V7 cam)

1974 2002tii(USA) PL04-124.02 A-1 92 004 020 (V6 cam)

The early cars utilized a slightly different throttle linkage arrangement which lead to the A-series pumps not being interchangeable with the B-series or later pumps. The later (i.e. 1974) USA market cars utilized a pump (124.02) which contained a different fuel delivery cam (see below). Interestingly, my 1976 hard copy parts books shows that the early European and USA cars used the same pump 13 51 1 256 536 (BMW number, new parts only are listed here-not AT or Yl numbers) which is superseded to 13 51 1 259 887. This 887 pump is listed for European only models while the later ’74 USA cars used the unique number 1351 1 259 535. However, my 11/85 microfiche shows only the 13 51 1 259 882 part (the AT version of the 887 part) and the 13 51 1 259 535 part as being available, with the former applied to European models and the latter applied to US models.

Two things become apparent from this. First is that the earlier USA market cars carried the same injection pump as did their European contemporaries. To support this, a local 1972 USA market tii carries a pump labeled PL04-124.01 B-1 and 92 004 011 and Chris Achleithner tells me that the 92 004 Oil pump is the prevalent version in Bavaria. Second, I conclude that the pump shown currently as the European pump is functionally the same as the early USA pump with the V7 cam while the “current” USA pump (259 535) is in fact the later USA version. According to Kugelfischer literature, the 124.01 At and A2 pumps differed from later pumps insofar as a running change occurred in the throttle body which made those pumps incompatible with the later throttle bodies due to alterations in the cam which complement changes to the throttle. pump with the V6 cam. My 11/73 microfiche for the 2000tii agrees with the 1976 2002 book. I further suggest that although the above information on pump designation vas obtained from Kugelfischer publications and shows that the various pump had differing designations at Kugelfischer, BMW AG considered all the 124.01 pumps to be functionally identical except the 1974.

I have included as figures a copy of a graph by Dave Redszus which was published in a previous tii Register Newsletter. In it, Dave shows fuel delivery profiles for the V6 and V7 pump cams. The positions P1, P2, P3, and P4 correspond to the idle, low partial throttle, high partial throttle, and full throttle pin settings at the enrichment lever on the engine-side of the pump. The V6 cam vas used on the 1974 models while the V7 cam vas used on earlier cars. Recall that the 1974 USA cars had to meet more stringent exhaust gas emission standards and that most of the emission tests were done at idle and under part throttle acceleration. This probably explains why the V6 cam is leaner than the V7 cam at low speeds. As discussed above, it appears that all the tii pumps except the 1974 USA pump used the V7 fuel profile while the 1974 USA pump used the V6 cam.

----------------------------------------------------

Best, Fred

Wow FB, what a wealth of information, and a great read. Thanks for taking the time to throw this together. I have recently been working on some handicap accessible vehicles and this guide was very helpful to me, following along with a couple other guides on conversions. Have you ever heard of braun?

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