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What Does It All Mean? PLEASE HELP!


cxzsaq

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As some may know, I cant get a spark with my new crane 700 kit. Based on your comments, here are the readings I took of the coil and the resistor. What does it all mean?

Resistance on the coil (black stock). Nothing else connected to it:

IMG-20110630-00002.jpg

Resistance on the resistor:

IMG-20110630-00003.jpg

Voltage reading going to the coil while cranking the motor - im not sure what this number mean:

IMG-20110630-00005.jpg

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resistance values looks ok to me altough the coil seems a bit high ? unless its a CD type unit, you should see 10-12v at the B+ of the coil...

try the following if nothing else works (coil test)

1- disconnect everything from the coil feed prongs, except the HT lead

2-connect +12v from the battery to the B+ of the coil

3-with a piece of wire or jumper, short momentarily the negative prong (-) to the ground and release, check for spark at the HT lead (dont assume the distributor is aligned to any of the 4 cyl)

or ask one of your friend to hold the HT lead and look if his eyes glows up.

if you get spark then the crane unit might be shot...not unusual at all...whats is very unusual is to get a bad coil, theses can get severe stress without a fail.

EDIT: crane 700 unit is NOT a CD unit so you should have 10-12v or close ALL THE TIME, sounds like the ignition feed is missing on your set-up. Here is a very simplified wiring that should show it very well.

mb_crane_ignition2.jpg

2006 530xi, 1974 2002 Automatic summer DD
1985 XR4TI, 22psi ±300hp
1986 yota pick-up, 2006 Smart FT diesel

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I'm sure you have done this... but go back over all the connections....

1) Is + power coming from the same LEADS that provide power to the coil? There are two... one for running that goes through the resistor, one for starting that bypasses the resistor. If you are getting power from some other source... it may turn off when your key is in start position. Best practice is to get power from the extra tab on the + side of the coil.

2) You left the + power connected to the coil, right? It needs power too.

3) Yellow lead goes to the - side of the coil from the XR700?

4) When you crank the engine, does the light on the XR700 flash?

5) What is the voltage at the + coil when you start?

6) What is the voltage at the + coil when you are in fahrt (hehe run)?

7) Did you remember to connect the coil wire to the dizzy?

8) Time for the daring spark game..... Coil wire 1/8" from a ground... wear a heavy leather glove... or even better hold it with insulated pliers. Crank car... spark?

The '02er formerly known as Gary in Colorado.

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+1 on what pat says for coil test. Also your voltmeter shows about 200mV during cranking, and I can't tell if the negative sign on your meters LCD display is really on or not, if so, you have 0 volts to coil & the -199mv is just noise. So you either have a bad reading, or you don't have 12 V to the coil. When ignition switch is on, you should see at least 10 V or more, maybe 8 to 10 V while cranking. mV is millivolts 100th's of a volt.

Does your Crane unit's Black & Red wires have 12V on them while ignition is on ?

2002 owner since 1980

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I'm sure you have done this... but go back over all the connections....

1) Is + power coming from the same LEADS that provide power to the coil? There are two... one for running that goes through the resistor, one for starting that bypasses the resistor. If you are getting power from some other source... it may turn off when your key is in start position. Best practice is to get power from the extra tab on the + side of the coil. All leads are connected. As I go down the list, you can tell that I have no idea how to test power to coil as im getting a wild reading as seen in the pic.

2) You left the + power connected to the coil, right? It needs power too. Yes - not sure its getting power - wild reading

3) Yellow lead goes to the - side of the coil from the XR700? Yes - negative side.

4) When you crank the engine, does the light on the XR700 flash? Yes.

5) What is the voltage at the + coil when you start? Not sure how to test that. I have the Equus 3320 Innova Auto Ranging Digital Multimeter

6) What is the voltage at the + coil when you are in fahrt (hehe run)? Not sure how to test that. I have the Equus 3320 Innova Auto Ranging Digital Multimeter

7) Did you remember to connect the coil wire to the dizzy? Yep. : )

8) Time for the daring spark game..... Coil wire 1/8" from a ground... wear a heavy leather glove... or even better hold it with insulated pliers. Crank car... spark? No spark. Tried that a while ago based on others feedback - that seems to be the issue. I feel that i have a bad crane kit. I got it brand new from summit

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sounds like you dont know how to use your dvom ?

1-connect - lead of the meter to the - post of the battery

2-connect + lead of the meter to the + of the coil

3-turn key to ON position, just before start, record voltage HERE _______

4-ask an assistant to START the car, and while it does so, record voltage HERE ______

make sure your meter is in DC mode

report with the voltage readouts.

2006 530xi, 1974 2002 Automatic summer DD
1985 XR4TI, 22psi ±300hp
1986 yota pick-up, 2006 Smart FT diesel

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No spark. Tried that a while ago based on others feedback - that seems to be the issue. I feel that i have a bad crane kit. I got it brand new from summit

If you dont get spark with this test then its the coil, not the crane unit.

2006 530xi, 1974 2002 Automatic summer DD
1985 XR4TI, 22psi ±300hp
1986 yota pick-up, 2006 Smart FT diesel

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Follow Pat's instructions for measuring voltage.

Let's step back a moment.... did it run prior to installing the Crane unit?

Looking at the pictures from your earlier thread... I think the crane is firing too early. Assuming in the picture below that the light on the Crane is ON. Adjust the sensor to fire right when the line on the rotor is lined up with the TDC mark. See the picture of mine.... I used a clear cap to get the best spark position. This is where my rotor lines up with the Crane light on.

Do you have another coil you can try? The resistance on the coil is slightly high... but not out of control. Junkyard or a universal fit from Checker/Advance/AutoZone will rule out the coil.

post-17311-13667645334687_thumb.jpg

post-102-1366764533639_thumb.jpg

The '02er formerly known as Gary in Colorado.

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sounds like you dont know how to use your dvom ?

1-connect - lead of the meter to the - post of the battery

2-connect + lead of the meter to the + of the coil

3-turn key to ON position, just before start, record voltage HERE __8.51 to 8.49_____

4-ask an assistant to START the car, and while it does so, record voltage HERE _-19.1 to -15.4_____

make sure your meter is in DC mode

report with the voltage readouts.

Here are the results (above and pics below).

I got the car running with a buddies pertronix and this is the same issue I have with points - the rpm is tooooo high (checked and rechecked all linkage) and it keeps moving from 20 to 15 (see video). Whats going on? Fully warmed up motor or cold - no difference

This same fluctuation is what I had with points (which is the reason why i switched to electric). What is this new issue?

Never got the crane 700 to work.

With electric ignition (pertronix).

th_VID-20110701-00001.jpg

This is with points - runs rough and high - shakes. the minute you try to lower the rpm (retard/advance), the motor starts to die and eventually dies.

th_VID-20110701-00000.jpg

With pertronix vid 2.

th_VID-20110701-00002.jpg

IMG-20110630-00005.jpg

IMG-20110702-00011.jpg

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Follow Pat's instructions for measuring voltage.

Let's step back a moment.... did it run prior to installing the Crane unit? YES. Rough like in the vids, but ran. see vids in this post.

Looking at the pictures from your earlier thread... I think the crane is firing too early. Assuming in the picture below that the light on the Crane is ON. Adjust the sensor to fire right when the line on the rotor is lined up with the TDC mark. See the picture of mine.... I used a clear cap to get the best spark position. This is where my rotor lines up with the Crane light on. The LED light is on in the middle of the rotor alignment and to both sides of the rotor when i rotate the dizzy (about 2mm each way).

Do you have another coil you can try? The resistance on the coil is slightly high... but not out of control. Junkyard or a universal fit from Checker/Advance/AutoZone will rule out the coil. No other coils. Maybe mine is ok based on the results in my last post?

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If your RPM's are fluctuating, you might want to inspect for a vacuum leak at the intake runners and other areas (valve cover gasket, throttle body, etc).

What else did you recently do to the engine besides the ignition work?

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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If your RPM's are fluctuating, you might want to inspect for a vacuum leak at the intake runners and other areas (valve cover gasket, throttle body, etc).

What else did you recently do to the engine besides the ignition work?

I was advised about a possible vac leak. I checked everything - all new seals and hoses. The car ran once at stable rpm's (i stored it in a garage for 2 days) and after that, the problems started - like a gremlin living there.

I even took off the rubber boot from the throttle body and air filter (after the videos i shot) - there was still the rpm fluctuation - with all the air going in, that would def have set something off.

Any other thoughts?

Maybe my injectors are dirty? I cleaned them myself before the install a few months ago - and the car ran fine like i mentioned above. I am not sure if this fluctuation is injector related.

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I don't think the injectors are your problem.

What happens when you try to drive it? Does the engine speed stay steady, or does it always fluctuate?

Did you remove the throttle body from the engine? The upper shaft and lower linkage piece might need to be re-indexed using the clamp bolt.

From the BLUE Book (page 13-64/3):

Fault:

Engine idle speed varies continually at normal operating temperature (hunting)

Possible Causes:

Idle mixture too weak (also the full range mixture)

Centrifugal advance starts too early

Intake air pipe leaking severly

Injection pump out of adjustment

Throttle valve sticking

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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you aren't screwed. you are just frustrated.

Walk away for a few days, and then re-approach. Start with the easy/cheap fixes and work toward the hard/expensive fixes. Jim's given you a list of leads to follow - follow them.

You can do it. Like my wife likes to say when I am frustrated - "Remember, it's your hobby".

Ken

FAQ Member # 2616

"What do you mean NEXT project?"

-- My wife.

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