M20 Triple weber build x2

[danco_]

welp, looks like I'm buying a 911 now. Thanks a lot, ya jerk. 

[AceAndrew]

On 5/17/2016 at 6:15 PM, danco_ said:

welp, looks like I'm buying a 911 now. Thanks a lot, ya jerk. 

 

Ryan you need to stop by!

 

Atlas came out to the workshop this morning to help me finish of some projects.  One of which will be part of the IE catalog soon (but whose original inception was entirely self serving ).   AMCO never did a 5-speed logo, however I mimicked their iconic look and wa-lah!.

 

[AceAndrew]

Seats.

 

This project began with figuring out which seats I wanted to use. The Scheel bucket seats found in the E9 CSL have always been my favorite. They offered great lateral support (compared to the stock seats) and had a sporty euro look I've always liked.

 

After doing a fair amount of hunting, I went with the Nurburgring seats from BF Torino.

http://shop.bf-torino.com/bf-autositze/nurburgring.html/

 

Mocking them up, I found the H-point to be extremely close to the stock seats. That was a nice surprise!

 

The seats needed something extra to make them a bit more fun! Inspiration came from the Bugatti Veyron Rembrandt, with it's two-tone leather weave. The issue is that custom two-tone leather weaving isn't very common.  However, that is when fellow vintage bmw owner and fashion fellow, John Carbajal of KingPin studio stepped in to offer his assistance. His experience in textiles proved invaluable. We met up in downtown LA and went to his favorite leather supplier. The store was gated and only through John's credentials was I able to get inside. However, once inside, it was incredible. Stacks and stacks of real Italian leather! The smell was amazing! We looked through a dozen or so appropriate hides and picked out two thick half hides to use for the weaving.

 

A couple weeks over he sent this picture. With the woven panels ready the seats and the leather portions were sent over to my upholstery shop.

 

 

Earlier this week I got the call saying they were done! Here's how they turned out. Note the weaving was hand done, so it is not perfectly symmetrical. Call it a touch of character.

 

 

 

Distilled Information

• x2 BF-Torino Nurburgring Seats + adapters + tilt kit

• x2 Italian Leather ½ hides

• x1 John @ KingPin Studio

• x1 Secrete upholstery shop

 

 

Carpet.

 

I emailed Esty of course! She suggested I take a leather sample to a carpet specialist and match an appropriate carpet color/material.

 

The best match we found was a Palomino-colored German Fine-Tufted velour used in older Mercedes. It was soft to touch but very hearty. Ended up with 7 yards to send off to Esty.

http://www.gahh.com/carpet-german-velour-backless-5460-palomino-60-wide.html

 

 

Esty was kind enough to extend the tunnel section (since there will be no center console) and went with a contrasting black heel pad. She was great to work with, could not ask for a better experience.

 

Here's a close up of the carpet and her work.

 

 

The front section laid out with the finished seat.

 

 

Distilled Information

• x6 yards of Palomino Fine-Tufted Velure (for carpet set, floor mats, and trunk mats)

• x1 Esty's skilled touch

 

 

That nearly finishes off the interior plans. With the car now at my house I have had the engine in and out at least eight time trying to get everything just right. Next up will be to finish the bodywork for prior to paint.

Edited July 31, 2016 by AceAndrew

[02tradition]

Anyone know somebody who still makes M20 swap mounts? Andrew?

[AceAndrew]

This walnut wood knob is my favorite. It features an aluminum threaded center sleeve while still including a set screw at it's base.  These will be available in “piece form” if you wish to do the staining and assembly yourself, as well as finished form.

 

Here's the break down with the billet center sleeve design I ended up with.

 

 

These will also be up on the IE page soon.

[AceAndrew]

OK,

I really should update this a bit.  Sorry for not doing it sooner.  Development of new parts takes a ton of time!  

 

I’ve started my own little thing under ADAMS Autosport
https://www.facebook.com/ADAMS-Autosport-225389507913715/

 

  The biggest update is the engine has now reverted back to the original triple weber idea.  I started talking to Rama at RHD about designing/developing a PROPER carb-specific manifold for the M20.  Fortunately, Jeff agreed to fund the project and will be the exclusive seller.

 

Outlay:  First thing was to come up with some critical design considerations.  

1)    Fit with the stock 2002 or Tii brake booster
2)    Intake charge path should be a nice smooth curve with an angle that matches the intake port angle of the 885 head. (so a nice continuous path to the valve)
3)    Integrate heim-joint bosses for linkage potential
4)    Blank bosses on the bottom for those wanting a place to drill-tap for a balance-box or nitrous feed.
5)    Separate castings for the center and side sections.

 

  The first printed prototype went on nicely, but the curved mounting face angle meant the carb crashed into the booster heavily.

 

 

  After consulting with Jeff, Gron Perry, Erik at Redline, Carl at Korman, Rob Inhout, and a couple others, they all agreed that the DCOE’s would be fine at a 10degree angle on both a street and race setup.

Rama tweaked the manifold to suite and started the casting process.

 

These are the first set out of the mold.  They will clear the stock booster with the shorter std. stacks.  Ideally a Tii booster would be used.

 

 

 

I’m sorting out the linkage right now.  Trying to get a good modulation for street-friendly throttle response.  Should have it figured out this weekend…

(mad photoshop skillzz)

 

I’ve got to get the engine back out though!  The shell is scheduled to get blasted in two weeks!

Edited April 7, 2017 by AceAndrew

[75duce]

They run poorly  at 10 deg.  5 degrees maximum up. 

Trust me I have tested it . You want them flat 0 deg for best performance . 

Fuel level in the bowl is very important for proper performance with that much angle you won't be able to ge the fuel level high enough with a plastic float carb.

To much angle will cause leaking out of the cold start circuit.

The manifold needs to be shaped like a swans neck to clear the booster and the distributor.

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by 75duce
Better

[AceAndrew]

Appreciate the input, but I've been very particular about who I took advice from on this project.  With my testing over the years, and their collective experience/input, we are good to go.

Edited April 7, 2017 by AceAndrew

[75duce]

To bad you and your hot shot consultants got it wrong .

 

just another poorly designed intake manifold for the m20 .  

 

 

When tuning sidedraft webers  the basics need to be right first or you will never get to sidedraft nervana.

 

Sorry I am not trying to be a prick but there is all ready four different manifolds being manufactured all with too much angle that don't clear the booster . We don't need another. 

 

It would be nice to be able to run a air box  or  King Kong air filters over the stacks . 

 

Google korman m20 sidedraft Weber manifold and you will see what they did in the 80s .  A slightly improved version of that design would be perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

[kbmb02]

"good to go" vs "got it wrong" .... and I'm here thinking perhaps such claims would be best made after the engine/car is up and running. -KB

[75duce]

Edited April 9, 2017 by 75duce
Eduardo Weber consultant

[Meintii]

Aaaand just like that im reminded why I never post on forums anymore. Haters gon' hate. Just ignore him Andrew. ?

[AceAndrew]

^^ No worries.  I appreciate the support.  He's simply passing judgment as best he can, with the experience he's gained and evidence he's had access to.  "Hot shots" is a great description of the guys that have weighed in.  It's only by their collective reassurance/experience that I put my own skepticism on the table for a bit and went forward with this design.

 

Ken is absolutely right, of course .  The proof is in the pudding.

 

75 Duce - 

  It's funny you mention an improved version of the Korman manifold would be perfect.  That's exactly what I thought when designing this.  That is also why I called Carl over there and talked to him at length about the manifold they used to make, its compromises, its strengths, and also what he'd like to see in a "new version".  Taking that information along with the downsides of the Rowland, UK-made, and Dbilas manifold, I came up with the design shown above.

  Fortunately Lorin in Atlanta still had an old Korman manifold and sent me a handful of reference photos.  Another customer sent over some shots of one in his E21 race car.  I've attached a few photo's they were kind enough to send over, note the prominent 10 degree angle.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by AceAndrew

[tinkwithanr]

If looking through this thread should teach you anything, it's that Andrew takes his time and does the required research in order to make sure anything he puts his name on/goes into this car is only the best.

75duce - that's not to try and bash you or anything, just that taking all the evidence into account I'm going to give Andrew and everyone else tied to this project the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. Is 0 degrees better than 10, probably. But is it enough to make them not work at all? Time will tell, but I doubt it.

[75duce]

Sorry if i came off as hateful the opposite is true . Ace you are doing great work.

 

I want to buy some manifolds off you . i just dont want to have to fix it first. 

 

If you are making a new design from scratch why compromise. 

 

They will run at 10. i ran them that way for years. do they run better at 0 yes .

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by 75duce
sounds like the devlopment is done good to go.