Opinions please

[nealf]

Hi: After attending Vintage last week (in my CS), my thoughts are centered around how many nice cars were there. I am also very fortunate enough to have bought a very early '72 Tii from another FAQ'er a couple of years back. The car, I believe is very original. It was originally a CA car, then a CO car, then onto the east coast. I love the car and the only reason I take my CS to vintage is because it is equipped with a 5 speed. Anyway, being very original, it wears a lot of the original paint I believe, but also a lot of road scars. The nose is sand blasted , numerous chips, scrapes, dings, dents, etc.

I wanted to "freshen" it up a bit, but not totally repaint, for sake of originality. Do you think this is a good or bad idea?

Major areas that I wanted to touch up: Paint nose, scrape under lower trim on driver door, some kind of something going on driver quarter near taillight, above rear bumper pass side, pass door, quarter, etc.

P.S. the car looks pretty good in the photos, but has a lot of pock marks....

[jrhone]

Personally, I think its a good idea only if done right! Take it to a few reputable body shops, and ask them. Can they match the paint, will it fade funny later? My car has had a respray in some areas by the previous owner...it is not fading well. Some parts are yellowing, and some are perfectly fjord blue. Now I am in the same boat...respray the bad parts or a total respray....I think its gonna get a total respray that way I fix EVERYTHING wrong with the exterior at once.

[Mike Self]

the trick is to match the paint--spectrographic paint matching machines are pretty spectacular--my Sahara 73 was partly painted in 1990 (windshield forward), then the rest in 1991. Subsequently the hood was re-done in 1995, the nose in 2003, the roof and deck lid in 2008 (all from minor, non-collision damage) and you cannot see a difference in color in daylight or artificial light. All done by the same shop, with the same brand of paint.

The other trick to doing partial repaints is to find a good part line. The crease on the driver's door can be repaired and the door painted up to the lower rub strip, with the paint seam occurring under the strip. And the nose can be re-done using the nose/fender seam as the part line, leaving only an inch above the headlights to blend.

Bottom line--it's your call, but a good touchup/partial paint is technically possible. My 73 is living proof.

mike

[ClayW]

Unless you're willing to fully strip it and repaint it, I wouldn't do more than buy a bottle of touch up paint.

That being said, no one in this community will look down on you for having car with character (read: patina). We're all just happy to see them on the road. Further, if it's the original paint that's a little dinged up, it really hard to erase all of that history.

[jgerock]

Hi Neal. I didn't know you also had a 72tii. Seems like I only see you driving the CS. What's your VIN?? Car history, location, etc. would be nice.

Looks very nice from the pictures.

[ibjettin]

Bring it somewhere for a good detail and touch-up. You'd be surprised at what most places can do without having to respray. Once you respray then everything else will look old... trim, molding, grills, chrome, etc.

Put in a 5-speed and enjoy it as much, if not more, than you do already

[nealf]

Jim: I bought this from Robert Cruz, with JC Taylor's (insurance company) money back in the late fall, 2008 I think. I rear ended someone in my Bavaria, which I had just finished refurbishing. Not one to let money sit around, I struck a deal with Robert and have been grateful ever since. John Weese had brokered the sale to Robert a few years earlier. It was a car that was advertised on Roadfly (remember how all f/s cars used to be on there?) in West Chester, PA very close to where I live. I was interested at that time but Robert scored it. He graciously gave me first right of refusal should he ever want to part with it.

I have a lot of documentation from the original owner, next owner, next owner, etc...

Some excerpts from emails:

#1 owner before Robert

thanks for the quick reply. I have attached an xls which has all the info that I have been able to gather. the majority comes from owners manual with notes from the original owner along with receipts and additional paperwork. Some even from an article about the car that was done for Road&Track in the early '80's.

a brief description:

early '72 model

Sahara color

sunroof

13" BBS basket weave wheels (and 14" bottle caps)

adjustable sways

bilsteins

cloth Recaro drivers seat

New Hella 7" driving lights and H4's

BMG cover

working clock

from what I can tell all panels are original. it has had paint work on the passenger side at one point but the rest is original. as such there are several dings as might be expected on a 33 year old car. there is a small amount of rust on the front fenders and one hole in the spare tire well, but that is it. In the 4 years that I have owned the car I think it got rained on once.

It's not a creampuff, but it is in pretty good original condition.

#2 Owner 1

gave it to my brother in Iowa City in 1983 after driving it for 12 years,

>and he sold it around 1991-3, after I transferredi ts successor, a 533i, to

>him in about 1991. I thought he sold it to a guy in Iowa, but wiil copy him

>on this email to confirm regarding that.

> Btw, Carl also put Corvette advance springs in, which made it more like the

>Euro distributor, & made a big difference in low end acceleration.

>The seat is long gone, sad to say. I kept the original hubcaps for some

>years, but they should be available on Ebay.

>Never put back the original suspension ride height doughnuts- they really

>mess up the handling, made it worse than my original1602.

#3 Owner 2

This is Erling Anderson (C. David Anderson's brother) who had his 2002tii after he bought a 533i in 1984. I live in Iowa City, Iowa and teach at the U of Iowa (by the way, they sell t-shirts that say "the University of Iowa, Idaho City, Ohio"; the 3 states are interchangeable to many people!).

> I kept it until about 1995 and sold it to owner #3; a person in Omaha, Nebraska. I don't recall his name but did give him the Road and Track magazine about the car as well as the license plate. David had given me the magazine and I saved the plate after I purchased Iowa plates.

> So the car went from D.C to California (David) to Iowa (Erling) to Omaha Nebraska (owner #3; name unknown) to owner #4.

> I never drove the car in the winter since I did not have winter tires. The car would not climb even a 0.5% grade in snow with the tires it had. I learned that when caught by a winter storm.

> The car had two dents (left rear corner near the tail light) and a ~ 1 foot dent/scrap low on the driver's side door. I recall the origin of both.

> Thanks for the information on the respray. The paint was coming off on the right rear quarter panel when I had it. It was a total mystery to me since the car had never been in an accident. I did not have it sprayed and David couldn't recall any painting either. I'm not sure when that was done.

> I think I have the original window sales sticker but have not seen it recently (1972 new car cost was about $5,000!). Could you send a copy of the picture to me? I'd be interested to see any changes.

> It is nice to hear the car it still running strong. Oh, I did have the transmission rebuilt (the chronic 2nd gear syncro problem of those cars). Does it have any shifting problems? Also, I never had the original driver's seat. FYI, I was told most parts are available with the exception of the mechanism and trim for the sun roof. Might want to secure those parts if you get a chance.

[jgerock]

Great information Neal! I recall seeing a tii in one of Robert Cruz's old pics and he told me he had sold it when I asked about it.

I'd recommend spot fixing the rust to keep it from spreading, detail it and keep driving it. As you probably know, tii's don't like to sit still.

[c.d.iesel]

I'd rather buy a car with original patina

than a repainted car. Unless the paint is done

to factory quality specs - it always ends up looking

like a "CAR THAT'S BEEN REPAINTED"

[Adamha]

Leave the patina and drive the car. It's only original paint once.

[TobyB]

Since you're asking for opinions, here's mine!

You'll NEVER be able to match paint perfectly forever.

Even if it's exactly the same color, the texture of new paint

will be different than old paint- the old stuff's been scuffed

and 'aged' by the elements.

And it will never age exactly the same way, since the chemistry will

be different.

You can get pretty close, but not the same.

With that in mind,

1 Paint nose,

2 scrape under lower trim on driver door,

3 some kind of something going on driver quarter near taillight,

4 above rear bumper pass side,

5 pass door, quarter, etc.

1- sure- the nose panel's always going to look different than the

body anyway, due to its shape. If you use chiopguard under

the lower paint, it'll last a long time.

2- again, sure, since there's a trim break line. you might

notice it being different than the quarter, but you might not.

3 Rear quarters are harder- there's no good place to blend. so you

might end up doing the entire reare of the car,

including

4.

5- so why not do the entire rear below the trim line? Then you'll

have consistent color on most panels...

All that said, it's really a matter to talk about with the shop

that will do the work. They'll probably be the most qualified to make these decisions...

hth,

t

[Cruzr]

Hi Neal:

Being the caretaker (or wrecker, as you might recall) for a couple of years, I would suggest that you keep the respraying to a minimum. The paint was in pretty good state, as I recall. I would respray the right quarter panel and leave the nose as is.

Jim:

That's an early tii, 2760243, that according to the first owner, was part of the first shipment from Germany.

It sat in my garage for a couple of years, after i started taking it apart, with the intent of having it resprayed by Matt in Conn., when my financial situation changed. I am happy that Neal is the caretaker now, as the car deserves a caring owner to keep it going.

There is an article on the March (or May?) 1981 Road & Track with a picture of the car. I think I gave Neal the magazine that still has the original owner's mailing label on it.

Neal, are you coming to Saratoga? Please bring it to weep over it!

[Davo]

Before deciding to do a partial repaint I would work on the areas that I thought were salvagable and get them looking as good a possible then you would know what you need to do and what you need to match. I have an original schwarz square tail light car with the original paint and the paint is in pretty good condition, but I think the paint is thick enough to color sand the car and get rid of some of the small defects. I have a palm sander for color sanding that has the least aggressive motion, I just color sanded a new paint job and it saved alot of labor. 3000 grit disc are availabe and even 7000 grit. My sander has a hose that will pull water/ soap mixture from a bucket and run through the sander to lubricate the disc. I am planning to do a test section and see how it comes out. As far a the paint fading differently in the new and old sections, the only way to avoid that is not to let it fade.

[SteveJ]

Stone chips and such are badges of honor.

The first one hurts like hell. The subsequent ones just make you stronger.

[calicolorado]

If it has original paint, I'd leave it because it looks pretty darn good, and as others have noted-a nice patina is great. For the dent on the drivers door, you might look into paintless dent/ding removal. I had that done on my Audi TT and was very, very happy with the result.

HTH