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More suspension problems


Deutschman
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Took my 2002 in for the second time after getting my Ireland camber and toe adjustments welded for an alignment.

The problems the techs are having are these.

The nut for the toe adjustment that is sandwiched in between the body of the car and the mounting point for the a arm right by the sub frame bushing is impossible to get to unless you drop the sub frame.

How does one tighten this nut after doing adjustments to the toe eccentric bolt? Is there a way?

Secondly they told me that the eccentric part of the bolt for the camber adjustment on the inside of the car is to large to turn. This I do not believe because I have turned it my self and it turned freely.

I know some of you have Ireland's camber and toe adjustments welded on to your sub frames and I am wondering how you have dealt with these problems?

This is the best they said they could do.

IMG-3.jpg

Maybe they are just not very good.

The first time I took it in for an alignment they told me I needed to get these parts welded in for a proper alignment.

The second time I took it in the did an alignment, but forgot to notes that I had the adjustment parts welded in and told me they could not do a proper alignment. I pointed out that I had the parts welded in and they told me to come in a third time.

The third time I took it in I got the results above which took them two days and a part of a tank of gas.

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I hate to sound like a broken record here but have you tried calling or emailing IE and see what they would suggest, after all it is a product they make.

Is the person doing the alignment is the same "trusted mechanic" from before? Do they have experience working on 2002's or other european classic cars? perhaps it would be a good idea to have him talk with IE directly, I'm sure they'd be up to talking with the alignment guy to give him the best foot forward.

If you want somebody who deals with prepping a number of 2002 race cars (with the same toe and camber kits.) why don't you try Ronin Autoworks in Fullerton. (714) 526-8100

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I hate to sound like a broken record here but have you tried calling or emailing IE and see what they would suggest, after all it is a product they make.

Is the person doing the alignment is the same "trusted mechanic" from before? Do they have experience working on 2002's or other european classic cars? perhaps it would be a good idea to have him talk with IE directly, I'm sure they'd be up to talking with the alignment guy to give him the best foot forward.

If you want somebody who deals with prepping a number of 2002 race cars (with the same toe and camber kits.) why don't you try Ronin Autoworks in Fullerton. (714) 526-8100

Is it just me or was there just a post about IE parts and how they have problems that got deleted?

I will call them, or have the mechanic call them.

I just wanted to know what people who have used the kit have experienced. Maybe some one has had the same problems and can give me a helpful tip.

Again. I would hate to take it to another shop and have them tell me the same thing the first shop told me. Especially if it is 1 and 1/2 hours away from my house like many of these shops are.

I have called Ireland in the past and their help is not always helpful.

I would also agree that their parts often take a lot of tinkering to work as they should.

I have worked on e30's and Toyota mr2's and installed plenty of after market parts and I have never had as hard of a time getting them to work the right way.

Maybe it is the car, maybe its me, maybe it is the parts, or maybe it is all of those combined.

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OK I was not going to harp on this much but here goes. I had my suspension upgraded a few years back. New B&G springs, Billy's (Sport) IE sway bars. So the negative camber was bad (-5) but you know I lived with it. Last year I did the front sub frame, urethane bushings, steering coupler, repaint & other good stuff. Then it came time to do the back as well. All bushings, diff seals/hanger mounts, subframe mounts, AND IE camber and toe in adjustments. Well since an alignment needed to be done after the install I went to my full service shop to get the final set up -1 degree of negative camber. Well that’s when the fun began. My shop discovered one, that not only are the adjustment bolts well blocked but the eccentric bolts and washers are not "slotted" on the end that is placed over the side that in bolted on. The other end is welded so the loose eccentric washer is essentially on its own! Neither my BMW guy or the large full service shop I go to knew any real reason to do it that way. So far they are holding and I marked the locations of the set up under the frame to check for movement. I have to say the guy who installed the set up is very knowledgeable and did recommend there over say eccentric bushings, and my other shop is large and fairly reliable. They shop stated that they could not guarantee that the alignment would "hold" due to the way it was designed. The set up is WAY better, but for sure the tech of the kit could be a tad better. It is a MAJOR job no doubt. like 6 hours of shop time. .... remove sub frame, weld, grind, paint, re assemble, etc. So you better need the sub frame out for a good reason.

Oh just as a note I DID call IE after the fact to ask about the reasons for not slotting the bolt and washer.... I can't remember being satisfied with the answer. However, most of my dealings with IE (and I have a lot of their stuff on my car), have been good.

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Not sure which subframe bolts are problematic: the bolt/nut that fasten the outer control arms to the subframe brackets are easily accessed from the front of the subframe--PLEASE NOTE IT IS WISE to install this bolt with the head oriented to inside to avoid having to drop the subframe to release the arms). To tighten the outer bolt/nut that hold the subframe bushings in place, I wedge a flat head screwdriver between the head of the BOLT and the bottom of the bracket (there is about a 1/8inch gap) to keep it drop rotating--the nut is placed on the front side of the subframe. Or am I confusing the matter more?

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I just got an email from Jeff and he said I need to customize a wrench to fit in-between the body of the car and the brackets that hold the bushings/bolt combo for the toe adjustment. That's the only wayti get to it apparently.

As fare as the camber eccentric being to tight he said they ate made to fit tight and I would agree.

My eccentric washer for the camber adjustment was slotted for the bolt.

The toe washer was welded to the bolt.

I guess his advice was helpful, but at the same time not the best.

I already thought I would have to build a tool.

I would have thought that having these kits on his cars he would have come up with a better solution now.

What if things slip out surfing a track day?

Your going to have a real hell of a time getting everything tightened back up again!

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I would hate to take it to another shop and have them tell me the same thing the first shop told me. Especially if it is 1 and 1/2 hours away from my house like many of these shops are

Jeremy,

Get Tim Barber on the phone before you commit to drive to his shop. Tim is a great guy and is familiar with our cars and suspension set ups.

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Yup, you have to make very custom wrenches to tighten those nuts.

I had to make a righty and a lefty, even.

And yes, the head of the bolt gets welded to the washer-

that way you can turn the bolt head and adjust toe (or camber).

And yes again, Ireland recommends that you tack weld the washers

for good reason- I've had them slip (before I did the custom wrenches)

and having your car rear- steer itself after curbhopping is really...

unnerving... especially downt eh back 'atraight' at Portland....

All that said, there's no reason to put the camber/toe kits on a reasonable

street car. If the rear toe's not right, you've bent something. If the camber's

too great, you're too low! (heh)

If your street car's unreasonable, then you might want to take some

camber out- but leave at least -2, or you'll trailing throttle oversteer

your ass right off the road at a very inappropriate time...

fwiw,

t

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