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dual carburetors


elvis2002
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Well some say you will not really benefit fully by slapping them on a stock engine. Here is the theory. Dual carbs give you more air and fuel when you need it. The M10 doesnt need more at low RPM's, at least not more than a single carb can deliver. So the REAL advantages come at the top end of the RPM curve. A stock engine just doesnt run high enough in the RPM range to take full advantage of the extra fuel and air. So for most people the 32/36 or the 38/38 is a better option for a relatively stock engine. If you plan on adding exhaust, cam, high compression pistons and a hot ignition setup, then dual carbs will really work well in that setup giving you in the ballpark of 150 hp...on a bone stock engine, you may see some advantages, but it depends on whats in there now AND how its tuned. I am sure ALOT of people take a poorly running car into a shop, get dual carbs put on, as well as doing timing, replacing plugs, oil etc and updating the ignition then say WOW this dual carb setup is so much nicer than stock, when in reality, its all the other things that made the huge difference. That being said, they come up for sale every now and then, or you can get a new system with intake manifold and linkage from TEP or Ireland. New expect about $1100 for the setup. This does not include the water bypass pipe which is needed to bypass the water from going to the intake manifold. It does not include a fuel pump which may need to be replaced if yours isnt up to pushing more fuel, the Bavaria pump works well if you want mechanical or you can get an electric pump as well. This also does not include the upgraded ignition which should be upgraded to handle the extra fuel and air and make hotter spark.

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Improved suspension is good for any car.

Improved brakes is mostly a falacy, especially for a street car. A myth promoted by tuners, mfrs. of brake kits and components, parts suppliers, etc. - that if you 'build' the motor, you're gonna need bigger brakes. It's mostly a 'Bling Thing' like aerodynamic bodykits, spoilers and wings - on a street car, you're never going fast enough for them to have any effect, except visual.

Take any car... it stops from 60MPH in a given distance. Pump up the engine with no appreciable difference in mass (weight), under 100 lbs. The car will now get to 60MPH much faster, but will still stop in the same given distance as before.

Larger brakes are mostly an improvement in fade resistance, not stopping distance. Fade is not something a street car experiences because sufficient time exists between brake applications for adequate cooling or heat shedding to take place.

Now on a car used for auto-x, DE or track work, it's a whole other subject.

Cheers!

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Well some say you will not really benefit fully by slapping them on a stock engine. Here is the theory. Dual carbs give you more air and fuel when you need it. The M10 doesnt need more at low RPM's, at least not more than a single carb can deliver. So the REAL advantages come at the top end of the RPM curve. A stock engine just doesnt run high enough in the RPM range to take full advantage of the extra fuel and air. So for most people the 32/36 or the 38/38 is a better option for a relatively stock engine. If you plan on adding exhaust, cam, high compression pistons and a hot ignition setup, then dual carbs will really work well in that setup giving you in the ballpark of 150 hp...on a bone stock engine, you may see some advantages, but it depends on whats in there now AND how its tuned. I am sure ALOT of people take a poorly running car into a shop, get dual carbs put on, as well as doing timing, replacing plugs, oil etc and updating the ignition then say WOW this dual carb setup is so much nicer than stock, when in reality, its all the other things that made the huge difference. That being said, they come up for sale every now and then, or you can get a new system with intake manifold and linkage from TEP or Ireland. New expect about $1100 for the setup. This does not include the water bypass pipe which is needed to bypass the water from going to the intake manifold. It does not include a fuel pump which may need to be replaced if yours isnt up to pushing more fuel, the Bavaria pump works well if you want mechanical or you can get an electric pump as well. This also does not include the upgraded ignition which should be upgraded to handle the extra fuel and air and make hotter spark.

I disagree. :)

Try bolting a set on a stock motor yourself, and see what happens.

Yes, that's all I did at the time. There was no sending it off to a mechanic or anything, since I do it all myself. I already had everything tuned up myself with the old carb, and bolted a set of 40 DCOEs on a stock tired old motor. That's because I found a good deal locally on the carbs that I couldn't pass up. It's not like I wanted to leave them sitting around doing nothing until I could afford the right cam and rebuild (which would cost way, way more).

Theories, shmeories. It gives you way more air/fuel to choose from, whenever you want it and however you want it. They're way better designed and better flowing carbs than a downdraft carb. I was spinning the tires a whole lot more, with a lot more torque, and getting faster times at AX. Not ideal of course, but why not? It's fun, and by far the best single upgrade I've done on my car.

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Well some say you will not really benefit fully by slapping them on a stock engine. Here is the theory. Dual carbs give you more air and fuel when you need it. The M10 doesnt need more at low RPM's, at least not more than a single carb can deliver. So the REAL advantages come at the top end of the RPM curve. A stock engine just doesnt run high enough in the RPM range to take full advantage of the extra fuel and air. So for most people the 32/36 or the 38/38 is a better option for a relatively stock engine. If you plan on adding exhaust, cam, high compression pistons and a hot ignition setup, then dual carbs will really work well in that setup giving you in the ballpark of 150 hp...on a bone stock engine, you may see some advantages, but it depends on whats in there now AND how its tuned. I am sure ALOT of people take a poorly running car into a shop, get dual carbs put on, as well as doing timing, replacing plugs, oil etc and updating the ignition then say WOW this dual carb setup is so much nicer than stock, when in reality, its all the other things that made the huge difference. That being said, they come up for sale every now and then, or you can get a new system with intake manifold and linkage from TEP or Ireland. New expect about $1100 for the setup. This does not include the water bypass pipe which is needed to bypass the water from going to the intake manifold. It does not include a fuel pump which may need to be replaced if yours isnt up to pushing more fuel, the Bavaria pump works well if you want mechanical or you can get an electric pump as well. This also does not include the upgraded ignition which should be upgraded to handle the extra fuel and air and make hotter spark.

I disagree. :)

Try bolting a set on a stock motor yourself, and see what happens.

Yes, that's all I did at the time. There was no sending it off to a mechanic or anything, since I do it all myself. I already had everything tuned up myself with the old carb, and bolted a set of 40 DCOEs on a stock tired old motor. That's because I found a good deal locally on the carbs that I couldn't pass up. It's not like I wanted to leave them sitting around doing nothing until I could afford the right cam and rebuild (which would cost way, way more).

Theories, shmeories. It gives you way more air/fuel to choose from, whenever you want it and however you want it. They're way better designed and better flowing carbs than a downdraft carb. I was spinning the tires a whole lot more, with a lot more torque, and getting faster times at AX. Not ideal of course, but why not? It's fun, and by far the best single upgrade I've done on my car.

Ask any tuner...or ANY guy familiar with 2002s. On an engine under 150hp Dual sidedrafts will give you NO performance over a downdraft, especially a 38/38. In fact you may LOSE torque. The downdrafts are better at low RPM, sidedrafts at high RPM. I'm going with the "theories" of those guys that build parts, build race cars, and work on them daily...Your example never stated what was in it before...A tired solex in need of a rebuild? A 32/36? I am going to dual 40s for one reason...the bling factor. I'm keeping the 38 probably because everyone tells me that even on my motor, the 38 may actually perform better.

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Improved suspension is good for any car.

Improved brakes is mostly a falacy, especially for a street car.

.

.

.

.

Now on a car used for auto-x, DE or track work, it's a whole other subject.

Cheers!

you MOSTLY contradict yourself right there. I won't start on the rest, but needless to say if your an old fart (or drive like one.) then yes there is little need.

MOST importantly....... I thought this thread was about everybody's 2cents worth on SIDE DRAFT Carburetors.

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I would have to agree with KFunk Side drafts where one of the best upgrades I have done to both of the 2002 drivers that I have had. You can't discount the bling factor or the great sounds from the intakes when they open up. I would up grade the ignition first and get the car tuned before the install. Once you are ready bolt them on and have fun. I doubt you will notice any power loss. I didn't.

Mark

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There has to be some benefit... BMW bolted on a set of solex sidedrafts on the Ti and showed an improvement over the stock carb with all else being equal. Of course a 32/36 or 38/38 may have showed the same improvement over the stock carb.

Not quite. The distributor was different and the pistons as well, little higher compression.

However, KFunk is right, bolting twin carbs on a stock engine will give you 10-20% hp increase and makes the engine much more lively.

And then there's the SOUND!! :D

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Improved suspension is good for any car.Improved brakes is mostly a falacy, especially for a street car.

Cheers!

I gotta agree and at the same time disagree. For example my E21 used to be a 6 cylinder 2000 now I put in a 2700cc and the car is A LOT faster hence I see myself having to think beforehand when braking.

I understand big discs and such are for cooling but in my case I would love to have a bigger brake booster to help me out. So brakes do need to be improved if your car is faster in my opinion but not for cooling but for braking power. Unless you are taking it to the track....

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Ask any tuner...or ANY guy familiar with 2002s.

I have stock flat-top pistons & head w/ dual 40's. They really seam to add a lot of UMPH! Noticable on long steep inclines (pedal down - accelerate!), and higher RPM's. Quick pedal response for the most part. From what I understand, they can perform differently at lower or higher RPM's depending on how you tune them. Different idle & main jets let you add what you want where you want. (reading and experimenting)

I'll be adding a 121 head w/ a Delta regrind soon. Hoping for even better response.

Lots of work, $$ & time to convert... but definitely lots of fun.

Scott

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Guest Anonymous

It could probably be said from folks that have tried all 3...

32/36... makes you smile

38/38... makes you smile ear to ear

Dual side drafts..makes you laugh and wonder why in the heck didn't I do that earlier..Your tires spin and the brakes fade/smoke...dayuuum

All this from underneath the shade tree, I can't really say what the experts think about it, but from the shade tree guy "oh what a feeling"..

ira

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