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M20 or S-14.....


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Guest Anonymous

...I know there's lots of info out there and I'll start sifting soon, but first I would like to get some impressions from the message boards. Even though my Tii motor still pulls strong, I am going to start acquiring parts for my engine upgrade for when the M10 gets tired. I am torn between the two obvious choices. Considering that both motors are a step up in performance I will decide based on these things in order of importance :

1. ease of installation-I'm not a pro but I have done the basic drivetrain upgrades-5-speed, LSD, clutch, etc. I want to do the

engine upgrade myself so the easier, the better.

2. Cost-I know the M20 can be had for less but will the difference be lost in purchasing parts beyond what would be needed to install the 4 cylinder S14, i.e. custom exhaust, etc.?

3. Availability-How tough is it to find a good S14 vs. M20?

4. Performance-If I go to all the trouble to do the upgrade, it had better haul ass well above and beyond what my M10 does. Keep in mind that I easily hang with E-30/325s already. I'm hoping the reduced weight of the 02 will give me a big power to weight advantage over most E-30s.

Well, what do you think?

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Guest Anonymous

i'm in the same dilemma as well. here are my thoughts:

s14 - sexy and exotic. anything exotic, of course comes at a higher price tag... including maintenance. you get royalty status with this baby under that hood.

m20 - the only person who will truly appreciate the outcome of this conversion is the person behind wheel.

but then again, the only thing that matters to hot babes is how nice the car looks and how shinny the paint is... well, it's true for the materialistic ones... :P

my '02 cents.

cheers,

arnel

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Guest Anonymous

I'm partway through an M20 swap. I have no idea what I'm doing... the most work I had ever done on a car before I started this was change the oil. But! I have confidence that I'll get her to run (knock on wood). It seems relatively straightforward so far... the tricky parts are the transmission (several options there), motor mounts (Dan W. sells them) and driveshaft. I never considered the S14 due to cost, but by looking at other installations it is probably the way to go if you aren't a college student living on ramen noodles. The handling will stay the same and you won't have to chop up the car as much.

1. Ease of installation - the S14 wins. It bolts up to an M10 transmission, and I think it can use the same engine mounts?

2. The total cost for an M20 project can be less than just buying the S14 alone, even for a cheap S14. I think I've spent about $1000 so far. I have all the pieces I need to put it back together, but I'll probably end up spending another couple of hundred.

3. I don't know... I got my engine from www.car-parts.com. I had to look for a while to find a decent deal.

There is the 6 into 2 page at www.bmw2002.co.uk. There are a couple of other pages out there but I don't remember them at the moment. There's lots of info in the archives, especially by canada matt.

HTH,

Ben

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Guest Anonymous

I think the S14 is definitely the way to go if ou have the cash. The great thing about these cars is their handling capabilities. Reading that european cannonball race site where those UK dudes and their touring m2002 kicked a brandd new porche through the alps is enough to send shivers down my spine. I would never compromise the cars handling.. Just my view. I'll be doing this conversion for sure. Presently saving up some cash, and doing some smaller things now... fan relocation, battery, 5 speed tranny...

Rome

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Guest Anonymous

the s-14 conversion is more involved from what I hear. if you use the stock fuel infection you have to cut out protions of you bell housing and weld in the crank sensors from the M3 bell housing. i am considering doing the M20 wap becaue of cost and an M20 only weighs 35 Lbs more then an M10 from what I hear. Plus, if you turbocharged your M20 the cot of a turbocharged m20 instal would equal the cost of an s-14 conversion. 400hp for too much or 200hp for too much? it's your call. if you have the money go for an s-14 converion it is way cooler.

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Guest Anonymous

...money and power. The M-engine is wicked expensive to buy or build and is a high revving horsepower kind of engine. In the E30 M3 it didn't make the best daily driver in my opinion. It was a great race car, but not a driver. The M20 is cheap and plentiful and way more torquey. Personally, I prefer torque and low cost: so far I'm in less than $1000 and that includes the car, engine and transmission.

As for who would "appreciate" the swap, noone (outside of the driver) but a BMW fan would really appreciate the M3 engine swap either. Ask the average person what they think about E30 M3s.

Remember... these are opinions only.

-GABE

"M30 whats?"

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Guest Anonymous

touring_horsely.jpg

URL: http://www.m2bmw.com

Love my s14 conversion, but I think it depends on

your driving style and what you want the car for.

The s14 screaming 4 cylinder is so in character

with the 02, which is great fun if you like your 02 to

hunker and down and scream towards the horizon,

but there are downsides which I'm sure the m20

swap doesn't have...

Like low speed drivability - ie: torque. An s14 CAN

be torquey low down, but probably only with a 2.5

stroker and certainly without the restrictive AFM (air

flow meter). An m20 has much more torque, so

you'll be swapping cogs less and generally have a

more relaxed high speed journey (the m20 will be

quite a bit quieter too - an M2 is a loud beast).

I don't know by how much, but as the other posts

have said, an m20 is obviously a bit heavier than

the s14, which might compromise the on limit

handling - other people with m20's say they can't

really tell, but the extra mass must have an effect to

the cars balance. A side by side comparison

would be best, albeit bloody unlikely!

What I would suggest is (if you haven't already) you

at least get a ride in a decent e30 325i and an M3

to see what I mean - these engines are chalk and

cheese.

Would I swap my M2 for an m20 powered car? No,

never, but I'd love to have both!

Nick Vyse

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Guest Anonymous

You're right, you have to have the motronic sensors

installed into the bell housing, unless of course

you use the M3 gearbox. I did this as in Europe

they were close ratio 5 speeds (with the cool dog-

leg 1st) which I think is better suited to keeping the

s14 in their narrower power band (than an m20).

However, unless your converting an auto 2002

you'll need to fabricate a larger tranny tunnel for

this box.

In defence the s14 doesn't require the front panel

metal work to be chopped about - I've heard an

m20 can be done without this chop, but it's bloody

tight.

Nick

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Guest Anonymous

Chalk and cheese... good stuff.

Well stated post too. After the money factor, one's driving taste is really what it all boils down to. I've driven straight sixes in my past E28 and E12 and I've also spent plenty of hours behind the wheel of a well-prepped E30 M3, but I'm just smitten with the six. (Don't tell my wife.)

-GABE

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Guest Anonymous

There are quite a few "cross-overs"(S14 transplants) on there. Wealth of info, very much worth the $15 to join.

Personnaly, I love my 72tii just the way it is(very stock), and I love my E30 M3 just the way it is(Very slightly modified). Now if I could just convince the wife that we really need a fourth car...

Steve J

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Guest Anonymous

AS FOR THE S14 VS M20 CONVERSION, I WOULD GO WITH THE S14, AS FOR ITS NOT HOW MUCH WEIGHT YOU AD.. BUT WERE YOU AD IT. PUTTING THE M20 IN ADDS MORE WEIGHT ON THE FRONT AXLE WERE THE S14 IS IN THE SAME SPOT AS THE M10. SO THE S14 IS THE ONLY CHOICE FOR GREAT HANDLING AND SPEED.

HORSEPOWER PER DOLLAR...THE M20 MAKES ABOUT 162 OR SO HP AT THE CRANK THE 2.3 S14 HAS ABOUT 192 HP AT THE CRANK. YOU CAN PICK UP A GOOD RUNNING 325IS MOTOR FOR 800.00 AN S14 COST 2500.00 AND UP. A MODERN BUILT M10 WITH SIDEDRAFT THROTTLE BODDIES A TECH-3 MANAGEMENT 10.8.1 OR HIGHER COMPRESSION AND 316 CAM WILL RUN ON PUMP GAS 92+ OCTANE WILL MAKE 218+ HP AT 7200RPM AND WITH DYNO AND SET UP TIME,IS AS DRIVABLE AS A STOCK S14. THE COST IS MORE, ABOUT 5000.00 BUT A BUILT S14'S COST IS LIKE 7500.00 + DOLLARS AND IF THE M10 BREAKS ITS CHEAPER TO FIX. IF YOU GO WITH A MODERN TURBO SET UP YOU CAN MAKE AS MUCH AS 350 HP ON THE STREET AND UNLESS YOU HAVE 265/50/15 REAR TYRES YOU CANT MAKE USE OF THAT KIND OF POWER ON THE ROAD SO WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS ANY O2 WITH 185HP AT THE WHEELS, 205/50/15 REAR TYRES,AND 410 GEARS IS PLENTY FOR THE STREET AND MOUNTIAN ROADS. SO WHAT EVER YOU CHOSE MAKE IT APPEALING TO THE EYES AND EARS AND YOU'LL BE HAPPY... AS FOR ME ITS M10 POWER ALL THE WAY OR MAYBE LATER THE S14 HEAD ON MY 2.1 LTR BOTTEM END WITH 290 CAMS THAT SHOULD GIVER AT LEAST 240HP BY 8000RPM...

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