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tii fuel pressure check (update 3/27/2011)


jgerock

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I just took delivery of a new E30 in-tank pump and sending unit from BLUNT. I'm tired of messing around under the car spilling gasoline.

Thanks to Bill Williams' FAQ article for the part numbers.

Ray - funny you posted that from the tii registry. I JUST read the exact thing last night.

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Well I'm tired of your tii not running right. It's frustrating me! ;-) Let's see your next post entitled "SUCCESS!" ;-)

Bill (I know you are reading this), awhile back I posted that I saw somewhere that the KF pump cuts off fuel at closed throttle. That statement appears here in the photo of CD's text (your assembled contribution). Happens "above a certain engine speed" at idle position.

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/content/view/66/32/

Cheers,

Ray

I just took delivery of a new E30 in-tank pump and sending unit from BLUNT. I'm tired of messing around under the car spilling gasoline.

Thanks to Bill Williams' FAQ article for the part numbers.

Ray - funny you posted that from the tii registry. I JUST read the exact thing last night.

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

New E30 pump and sending unit installed (CHECK)

Used set of pigtails arrived Friday from BLUNT (CHECK)

Wired both the pump and sending unit early this mornng (CHECK)

Replaced 2 year old fuel filter on bulkhead. There were some tiny dark particles that I could shake out of the bottom of the filter. I'm guessing this might be due to not having the cone-shaped filter on the inlet of the E21 pump (that the stock tii pump has).

Edited - added picture of old filter and some fines after shaking. Looks like rust from the bottom of the tank.

pics10162010002.jpg

pics10162010008.jpg

Installed fuel pressure gauge after filter (CHECK)

Turned key on and observed ONLY 24 PSIG! Crap.

Started car and let it warm up with gauge still installed - still 24PSI.

Removed gauge and just came back from a 1 hour drive. Car runs about the same - stumbles on light-to-mid acceleration. Crap.

Under load and full throttle from about 40 mph in 4th gear, it tries to get above 5K rpm, but feels like there is still a lack of fuel pressure (DUH).

The weird thing is now my A/F gauge reads BETTER than before at WOT. It reads about 14 to 14.5 at WOT.

Letting car cool down now, then I'll double check the screen at the KF banjo bolt and also the pressure maintenance valve. Both Marshall Lytle and I think my issues are with this valve relieving at too low a pressure. But why is it doing it now? It was fine with the stock tii pump.

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Well - double CRAP.

Removed and inspected screen inside banjo bolt - OK

pics10162010011.jpg

Removed and took apart tiny spring and piston from Pressure maintenance valve - OK

pics10162010021.jpg

pics10162010020.jpg

Sort of funny part (but dumb idea):

I was able to remove the tiny spring clip from the end of the valve, along with (2) flat washers, the piston and finally the spring. During re-assembly, when I tried to press the clip into the groove - SPROING it went somewhere either inside or outside the open garage door. After a slight moment of panic, I got on my knees and luckily found the clip in the driveway.

I then took everything into the bathroom, closed the door, pulled the sink stopper and sat on the white tile floor and proceeded to assemble the valve.

SO WHATS NEXT GURUS??? ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEAS?

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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I would reassemble it and see if your fuel presure has changed it would only take a small piece of crap in the return valve to keep it from seating. If nothing has changed I would disconect the fuel return hose and put a short bit of hose on the return valve and plug the end with a bolt and hose clamp, run the fuel pump and check the presure you should have 80 to 100 psi, if you meet these numbers then the pump is not the problem and you'll need to find a new return valve.

Marty

Don't worry about the world ending today,

Hell it's already tomorrow in Australia.

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Bench test the pressure valve or somehow isolate it. Not sure visual inspection would tell you if it was working at proper spec.

Bench test your fuel pumps.

Throw your tii pump back on (did you test the pressure it delivered before you swapped it? did you send it in as a core?) and check pressures/volumes, then drive.

Did you double check the accuracy of your gauge or borrow another gauge to confirm?

Quite a head-scratcher.

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try to block the fuel return line with the guage still inline. If the pump is good, presure should sky rocket.

Id suspect the regulator inside the kpump.

remember that this pump only feeds volume to the kfish pump, not necessary presure by itself.

2006 530xi, 1974 2002 Automatic summer DD
1985 XR4TI, 22psi ±300hp
1986 yota pick-up, 2006 Smart FT diesel

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might be simpler to just pinch off the return line hose with vise grips and watch the pressure guage. should go way up.

exactly what i meant.

2006 530xi, 1974 2002 Automatic summer DD
1985 XR4TI, 22psi ±300hp
1986 yota pick-up, 2006 Smart FT diesel

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Hooked the gauge back up this morning at the cold start valve (original location). Gauge now reads 22 psi (down 2 lbs. since yesterday).

Using vice grips, I pinched off the return line at the gas tank and the gauge indicated 64 psi while the pump strained.

Released the vice grips and the gauge returned to 22 psi.

Looks like I have a weak spring inside the pressure maintenance valve.

Will try to borrow another one and do a comparison.

Stay tuned and thanks for the advice.

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Thanks to Bill Riblett, I borrowed a pressure valve and installed it after a quick cleaning in the ultrasonic unit.

With the old o-ring and the gauge still connected, I turned the key on and now have 28 PSI!! Unfortunately, the o-ring was leaking gas so I had to remove it and use the good ring one from my old valve.

With the car running and rev'd up, it maintains about 28 psi, so I disconnected the pressure gauge and went for a test drive.

The car runs worse than before. It stumbles and won't get out of it's own way until above 3500 RPM, but even then it won't allow the engine to go higher than 5K rpm.

Back home, I started from scratch and re-adjusted the throttle body to the pump, re-adjusted the idle CO and idle speed and went out again. Almost the same results. The engine is running too lean on acceleration. Changed the throttle body back to where I had it and gave up for the day.

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Bench test the pressure valve or somehow isolate it. Not sure visual inspection would tell you if it was working at proper spec.

Bench test your fuel pumps.

Throw your tii pump back on (did you test the pressure it delivered before you swapped it? did you send it in as a core?) and check pressures/volumes, then drive.

Did you double check the accuracy of your gauge or borrow another gauge to confirm?

Quite a head-scratcher.

I should have bought a pressure gauge before I removed the stock pump - Oh well, live and learn.

Still have the original tii fuel pump along with the E21 unit, but don't have any method for bench testing them. I only have (1) gauge so I cannot confirm the accuracy of it. Will most likely have to re-install the stupid gauge and take another test drive while it is connected. I'm tired of spilling gas and smelling like it.

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Just think of how satisfied you will be when this is all sorted! ;-)

How lean is it running now? I still say you should be seeing 12's and 13's under load, under acceleration. 14's are way too lean.

That said, I'm not sure that afr's are the only problem here.

Good luck,

Ray

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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might be simpler to just pinch off the return line hose with vise grips and watch the pressure guage. should go way up.

exactly what i meant.

yep! same page. i was refering to marty's "remove return line and plug it" suggestion. all the same idea!

2xM3

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Just think of how satisfied you will be when this is all sorted! ;-)

How lean is it running now? I still say you should be seeing 12's and 13's under load, under acceleration. 14's are way too lean.

That said, I'm not sure that afr's are the only problem here.

Good luck,

Ray

Ray - thank you for responding. I'm certainly no ASE master mechanic, but I'm trying to figure it out.

Idling at 950-1000 rpm = 12 (but I have adjusted the IDLE CO to 14 during my testing yesterday)

Under light load/acceleration: varies all over the place up to 16

WOT: about 15, but won't rev above 5K rpm

Cruising - light load: 14.5 - 15

Planned next steps:

1) Connect gauge and go for drive to compare PSI with A/F.

2) Do a volume test with E30 pump

3) Temporarily install stock tii pump and check PSI and flow rate (volume).

4) Stop messing with my finicky tii and concentrate on my VW.

5) Find a time machine and go back to May 2010 when car ran better (but still slightly down on power). This thing should go like stink.

Funny how I install (2) separate fuel pumps and the car runs worse than before, but others here don't have these issues.

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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