efi Megasquirt plug and play type kit

[nbristow01]

As I mentioned earlier my nephew is an injector guru in these parts. I told him what I want to do. I have a 318 mainfold, fuel rails etc. Bringing it all to him. He is setting it up with Megasquirt 2 or 3. He will modify my dist to be the spark trigger so he will have full ingniiion control. He said the crank trigger has to many additional parts and is becoming old technology now anyway. Most guys in older cars with distributors are starting to run the modified distributors now. Operates just like the crank trigger system but much more simple to setup and maintain. Offers complete control over the entire ignitiion system, all handled thru the megasquirt computer. Wide band 02 sensor, etc etc. Lets see how this setup works and how easy it can be put toghether by averge guys out there

[///mChris]

Have you considered a cam gear based sensor for the cam? This guy tried distributor and ended up scrapping it.

http://www.77e21.info/mscampossensor.htm

[nbristow01]

No, from what my nephew has told me the distributor based trigger system is a proven system and in use in many old cars that have been converted. He also said the dist mods are very easy to do. I am trying to keep this conversion as simple as possible, as cheap as possible with minimun parts needed. My car is currently on a 38/38 so this is a complete change of systems

[JohnN]

is that you still get variations in timing from 'wobbling' of the distributor at speed. This is the basic phenomena that causes the timing ball to bounce around when you shine a timing light on it and is caused by mechanical wear of the bearings in the distributor.

If you can, I'd suggest finding another distributor to do the work on, you're going to have to modify it so it does not provide any spark advance. You will also have timing variations because of wear on the rubbing block with 'standard' points. I think it would be a nightmare to try and set the dwell exactly to the same place every time you replace points. I'd strongly suggest going to a Pertronix system and throwing those points away.

Finally, its hard to have too much spark, a MSD system will make your car run better, independent of how the coil is being triggered.

John N

[nbristow01]

Yes I agree, he brought up this very subject on the distributor. He said they will rebuild, rebush etc the entire distributor. Once the distributor has been rebuilt and modified it is good for another 100k. They have cars they have done this to that have well over 100k miles since the build and running great. remember I am trying to make this simple for the more average guy to do. Sending in your dist for a rebuild and mod is much easier than trying to build your own crank trigger setup

[Pinepig]

It's not that hard to lock out the stock distributor, I did mine in under 1/2 hour. Just gut the thing of all the easy to take out parts, drill and tap through the plate above the counter weight into a counter weight and put a screw in the hole ( do both sides for balance issues ). No more movement inside. I only use mine to send spark to the correct cylinder ( have crank trigger ). I'd highly recommend a pertronix or the equivalent if you are going to use your distro as the trigger, I'm sure your nephew will have a handle on it though.

The other option is to go yank one out of a 318 E30 ( M10 version ) and swap the distributor gear ( just a pin holds it on ) for the one off your 2002 distributor ( they rotate in opposite directions ), it has a built in hall sensor and does not have a mechanical or vacuum advance built in IIRC.

[jimk]

Yes I agree, he brought up this very subject on the distributor. He said they will rebuild, rebush etc the entire distributor. Once the distributor has been rebuilt and modified it is good for another 100k. They have cars they have done this to that have well over 100k miles since the build and running great. remember I am trying to make this simple for the more average guy to do. Sending in your dist for a rebuild and mod is much easier than trying to build your own crank trigger setup

Earlier you said you wanted to do the EFI system cheap. Are you paying the neighbor the going rate for all these mods? Realistically if someone had to shell out cash for this work, it wouldn't be cheap. A decent system considering value of time input will be $1000 mininum with the most modest of equipment.

[Dave_Ganzer]

Having done Megasquirt on my 2002, I would NEVER do a distributor based ignition.

The crank fired solution is REALLY not hard at all. If you don't want to use EDIS (which is pretty much fool proof), MS2 and 3 can be made to fire the coils directly. You can either let MS do the dwell or you can use coils that just need a logic level input and do their own dwell.

There is just too much slop in the system between the crank and the distributor to give really good timing control.

DaveG

[nbristow01]

The reason I am doing this is so I can find out actual cost to do it so "cheap" is a variable right now. How Cheap? I don't know, I will see I guess but for sure cheaper than than what guys pay for dual 40s and will perform much better

[nbristow01]

[yeah I understand. We are trying the distributor first because it is not only cheaper but for engines near stock under 200hp it is still 500 times better than the current system which operates pretty reliably with the backlash etc on older distributors. Like i said this is the experimental stages so right now you have data and I have none. Once I have my data and actual cost then we will see. I understand the MS2 and 3 can fire coils but someting still has to tell it where everthing internally in the engine is positioned.

[Pinepig]

Having done Megasquirt on my 2002, I would NEVER do a distributor based ignition.

The crank fired solution is REALLY not hard at all. If you don't want to use EDIS (which is pretty much fool proof), MS2 and 3 can be made to fire the coils directly. You can either let MS do the dwell or you can use coils that just need a logic level input and do their own dwell.

There is just too much slop in the system between the crank and the distributor to give really good timing control.

DaveG

man that is just the kind of feedback I am looking for...so if MS2 and 3 can fire the coils directly then why even bother with a crank trigger? I am asking because I am n the learngin curve right now. But having it fire directly sure sounds better than either the dist or crank trigger

Well you still have to have something telling the MS where the crank is positioned at, it can't just pull it out of thin air.

Is what the previous poster was telling you is that MS2/3 will do the "math" internally for a EDIS wheel, you'll need the wheel, bracket and EDIS sensor but none of the extra EDIS stuff to make it work, thats about as simple as it gets.

[JohnN]

Having done Megasquirt on my 2002, I would NEVER do a distributor based ignition.

The crank fired solution is REALLY not hard at all. If you don't want to use EDIS (which is pretty much fool proof), MS2 and 3 can be made to fire the coils directly. You can either let MS do the dwell or you can use coils that just need a logic level input and do their own dwell.

There is just too much slop in the system between the crank and the distributor to give really good timing control.

DaveG

man that is just the kind of feedback I am looking for...so if MS2 and 3 can fire the coils directly then why even bother with a crank trigger? I am asking because I am n the learngin curve right now. But having it fire directly sure sounds better than either the dist or crank trigger

Well you still have to have something telling the MS where the crank is positioned at, it can't just pull it out of thin air.

Is what the previous poster was telling you is that MS2/3 will do the "math" internally for a EDIS wheel, you'll need the wheel, bracket and EDIS sensor but none of the extra EDIS stuff to make it work, thats about as simple as it gets.

you still need to modify it to remove the advance and you still have the problem with bearing wobble.

John N

[nbristow01]

Thanks Pinepig

[nbristow01]

Yeah thats what he told me John, the dist rebuild will remove the advance and rebush it

[///mChris]

It is important to know that you only need a crank sensor for EDIS or non-spark control. You need both Crank and Cam sensors if you want to do coil per plug or sequential spark control.