tires and wheels Spacers under the strut??? Massive?? Bump Steer???

[jrhone]

So I recall seeing Lee's Ball Joint Spacer....Hmmm...I have some questions. Will it restore some of my suspension travel or just geometry? At one point my car was a bit lower in the front...but I just didnt have the suspension travel so I raised it back up maybe 1/2" to an inch...If it restores some suspension travel..I can drop it back down, and get some suspension travel back and keep the bump steer down? Am I getting this right? It also says 15" wheels required...why?

[TobyB]

I have no idea whatsoever

how that could possibly affect bump steer.

It should not. This is a 2002, not a 240z

It DOES solve camber loss in cornering.

It WON'T get your suspension travel back- that's why

we all use shorter strut inserts and cut our struts.

It drops the lower ball joint, so that joint then needs

clearance from the rim. Thus, 15's .

I particularly liked the version that kicked the bottom

of the strut out a bit. I forget if that was Lee's

t

[NickVyse]

Lowering changes the geomtry of the control arm and steering which has been said to increase bump steer - this helps revert that by making the geometry of a lowered car a litle closer to stock.

No it won't help your suspension travel.

There's a guy in the UK that's had some made with 2.5 degrees negative camber and one in France that does 3 degrees. I have both and there's no diffrerence in quality. Email me if you want their contact details.

[TobyB]

which has been said to increase bump steer

Some say... he has balls of titanium.

Others that his fasteners are cadmium plated.

All we know is- he's called... oh bother, I forget.... Who's wearing that white storm trooper suit today?

The thing is, it HAS been said. But no- one who's said it has

actually backed it up with a curve.

A long time ago, now, I bought 2 cheap HF dial indicators and

tried to measure the bump steer of the race car. I gave up-

in a straight line, there wasn't enough to make it worth writing down.

The front end geometry of the 2002 is pretty good as- is.

I wasn't manic enough to try it at any deviation from straight ahead.

Suppose I should, sometime.

But it was such a non- event that I took the rig apart and used the

parts for other things.

That was my experience....

Now, camber loss in suspension compression, THAT I did find after

the suspension travels up much beyond 5" at the rocker.

And those spacers would help that...

t

[jrhone]

Thks...that clears that up!

[JohnN]

and this is really lowered, not H&R or ST springs. . . the front locator arms go from angled down to nearly horizontal. With a 'normal' suspension geometry the arm is always angled downward, even under cornering load. With shortened front springs and under cornering load the spring will compress and the angle of the locator arm will go from horizontal to angled up. These are the conditions that will induce bump-steer.

I don't know what you were measuring or how you were trying to measure it, but trying to look at a dial indicator while driving at speed is not going to give you a very reliable measurement

John N

[Lee]

Bumpsteer spacers (or rollcenter spacers) will go back into production in early August. Sizes offered will slightly change from previous offering.

13mm - to fit most 14" wheels

25mm - to fit most 15" wheels

25mm offset by 16mm (racers only)

Since I produced the spacers for 2002s three years ago, I have also produced them for e30 M3s in aluminum, which has proven to be quite strong. Therefore the 2002 units will also be made from aluminum, and not from steel like the previous batch.

M3 units

The 2002 units that were produced

[kbmb02]

A bit of reading on the subject of bump steer:

http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=13

My race car is lowered quite a bit, but I haven't gone out of my way to control bump steer; I either don't have the problem or got used to it . . . or perhaps I find the wheels helping me through a bumpy turn to be part of the thrill or racing (just keep the glue pedal firmly planted). -KB

And hey - John (jrhone) - the car is looking great.

[Colin]

Lee,

Will you have them drilled offset for more camber?

[Lee]

Lee,

Will you have them drilled offset for more camber?

Yes. 16mm offset.

Lee

[TobyB]

With shortened front springs and under cornering load the spring will compress and the angle of the locator arm will go from horizontal to angled up. These are the conditions that will induce bump-steer.

I don't know what you were measuring or how you were trying to measure it, but trying to look at a dial indicator while driving at speed is not going to give you a very reliable measurement

So when you MEASURED it, how much did you get????

When I bolted a plate to the hub, attached 2 dial indicators to a stand,

and travelled the suspension, the indicators deflected pretty much the same

all the way through the entire travel. That's how I measured it.

HOW DID YOU MEASURE IT????????

When the angle of the front arm goes 'negative', so does the tie rod.

Doesn't have to affect steering angle at all. Can. Look at a 240z.

Doesn't HAVE to. Try sweeping a 2002...

grumpily,

t

[JohnN]

If it were me, I'd first measure the distance from the ground to the bottom of the locator arm, as close to the wheel as reasonable.

I'd then take off the road wheel, bolt a largish plate to the rotor hat, pull the spring, reassemble, and center and lock the steering.

I'd lower the whole works to the same height measured above and use a plumb bob to mark where the face of the plate was near the edges and mark that position on the floor.

I'd then raise the corner and measure again.

If this is what you did, then you have empirical evidence I don't.

Regards,

John N

[Guest Anonymous]

I have degree'd the front suspension using a similar method to Toby...and agree with him that there is very little to no change in toe throughout the suspension travel. I haven't done a stock car...just my race car.

a

[jgerock]

I'm watching this thread with interest, as I don't have any '02 "sense" to add.

On the VW torsion bar front ends (Bug and Ghia) that have (1) short and (1) long tie rod, many folks who have extremely lowered front ends help reduce the effects of bump steer by moving the outer tie rod ends from the bottom of the spindle to the top. This reduces the pivot angle when the front end encounters a bump.