While your in there, might be with pulling a bearing cap to plastigauge the crank bearing clearance if your problem is oil pressure. . .

Keep up the good work

The problem is that I am a total dumb ass and when I was shimming out the oil pump last time I replaced the pan  I put a shim the wrong way around and caused a leak.  That being said the guts of the old pump look tired so I will put in a new one. The problem is that I need the splined sprocket, and I should change the chain, so I.E to the rescue.  Dammit!, why didn't I trust my instinct and order one with it... the first dollar is your best dollar. 

The good thing is that I trusted my instinct around my old header and knew it was about to give up the ghost. Lowe and behold when I was under there yesterday it has a healthy crack at the collector.   Hopefully, my Tri-Y ceramically coated fat chilli dog is done and shipped soon, The AFR will be affected because the crack is upstream from my O2 sensor.    

Jorge always hooks me up, so I will have to just chill until things arrive.

On 11/16/2018 at 7:15 AM, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Ok, so reread things, and sadly it seems that the Sniper units cannot accept a toothed wheel input for crank signal and then directly control a coil.  I suspect this is because they're trying to get most people to pop for their dual sync distributor, and that's fine for most of their customers with 'Merican engines, but it's not quite optimal either.  The drawback is that it all cases, it takes the crank signal from the distributor (not the actual crankshaft), which means that any lash/tolerance in the whole valve train (timing chain stretch, sprocket wear, cam to dizzy gear lash, etc.) causes some inaccuracy.  In any case, for someone with a basically stock M10 ignition I'd recommend the MSD route with locking down the dizzy and letting Sniper control the timing.  However since you already HAVE the 123, you don't really have much to gain from this and instead I'd say just use the MSD to send the RPM signal out to Sniper but let the 123 continue to actually control timing (page 24, the Ignition Box Tach Output - No Timing Control setup).  You get to program you own advance curve either way, but having the Sniper do it would be a 'longer' chain (123 - MSD - Sniper - MSD - Coil vs. 123 - MSD - Coil) which just gives more possibilities for error, at least the way I see it.

@Holley Tech, please feel free to correct me if any of my understanding/assumptions are incorrect, and I'll just say I think it would be worth considering adding crank wheel input and direct coil control options in future versions! Granted I'm a biased fan of wasted spark setups, but I'm sure I'm not the only one!

I apologize for the delay!  For some reason, I have stopped receiving notifications for this forum.  You are correct.  You can't use a toothed crank trigger to get your RPM signal directly.  You can use a flying magnet style wheel though (like an MSD).  It will pull the same signal as a mag-pickup distributor, and the Sniper won't know the difference.

 

On 11/23/2018 at 6:07 PM, Dudeland said:

I am taking a hiatus this weekend to change the oil pump.  At idle the oil light wants to stay on, so this is the third time I have had the oil pan off.  The other two times was to make sure it didn't leak.  At least I have the process down. 

Let us know when everything is back up and going.  I'm glad you got the distributor figured out, as I was not having much luck getting the info I needed on it.  -Luke @ Holley Tech

So I.E is overnighting the gear, chain and shims ($$$),  The header seems to be lost in the ether, no tracking and no word so I expect my order was overlooked, Having ordered it and paid for it in full on Oct 30th, I am kinda disappointed.   

Right now I have a serious man cold, so I will have to recoup.   I was thinking that now that I have the pan off I might put in a -6an for an oil return... just in case the header doesn't come... if you know what I mean.

9 hours ago, Holley Tech said:

I apologize for the delay!  For some reason, I have stopped receiving notifications for this forum.  You are correct.  You can't use a toothed crank trigger to get your RPM signal directly.  You can use a flying magnet style wheel though (like an MSD).  It will pull the same signal as a mag-pickup distributor, and the Sniper won't know the difference.
 

 

Luke thanks for the response.  You really didn't miss much, just me trying to learn the system.  I may need your help to solve a hunting issue and having the idle hang for 2-3 seconds and then drop out.  Attached are the logs. 

From a Dizzy perspective, I am running a 123 which you can program your curve.  Exactly what signal does the mag pickup dizzy give?  Is it a hall effect signal? or is a 5V square wave.  I can seem to figure it out.  I got one of these thingies that will take a regular points output and give you a 5V output.  Do I use that?

Thanks in advance

sniper_0003.dl

Sniper_0010.dlz

Sniper_0011.dlz

Ok I.E pulled through, got the splined oil pump gear.  The man cold is in full effect still.  I think Saturday will be time for it to go in. 

Ok so the oil pump is physically in torqued and high-fived. So just finished taking the not so old gasket off of the oil pan and windage tray.  The man cold is in full effect.  Hopefully, I can take care of the rest this weekend. 

40 PSI at idle,  but something is kinda clicky... coming from behind the rad.  I thought it was the fan hitting the fat rad. I might try nudging the motor back a bit, but it looks like more space than I started with.

 F'it. 

So tired and sick, I just want to sleep. 

I had a loose pulley making clicky noises once. 

Go have some chicken soup

The clicking was the fan "tickling" the weld at the bottom of my I.E rad.  Pushed back the motor about 3mm and now it is fine. 

I did a little driving today and transferred the learn map over to the fuel map, and smoothed it out. It is idling nicely, but you can kinda tell it is hunting.  I suspect (hope) that the cracked collector may have something to do with it. The intake was taken off and hogged out, so when I installed it new gaskets went in. I am trying to think of anything that may be causing a Vac leak, but the EGR is blocked (properly), the two manifold vac ports are welded over, and there is a new check valve in the vac line for the power brake booster. Blow by doesn't seem anything out of the ordinary. 

It is running really nice, good cold start, great pull, not bogging even at low revs, pulls strong and smooth right up to redline.  Now if I can just straighten out this pronounceable drop at idle I would say it is a success. 

I put in a new cap rotor and plugs, the old plugs were badly fouled. I knew it was running rich before, and even with the EFI, I don't think it would burn much of the fouling off.  The cap was taken off to do the oil pump and somehow got condensation in it.  It was badly corroded by the end of the week, and even with a wire brush, it was kinda toast.

I talked with Jorge and the header should be shipped soon.  I don't think I will try to do much more until the header is installed and the cracked collector is dealt with.  My hope is that the try Y doesn't leak at the joints.  Does anyone have any experience with exhaust cement?  It looks like a white goop that can be put on slip joints before they are assembled to make sure they don't leak.  I am not sure it is necessary, but will it hurt as a precaution?

Thanks again everyone for all your support.  Once I get the header in I will start to lean on Holley tech so chase down this final issue. 

Neither intake nor exhaust leak sold cause a speed density EFI to hunt at idle, much more likely is either the ignition advance or fuel map being slightly inconsistent in the idle area, so make sure those are both very smooth/constant at idle RPM and MAP. I even like to put the idle advance in a little 'valley' to help steady it, aka 18 deg below idle (500rpm) 16 deg all around idle (600-1000) and then climb back up to 18 at 1100 of idle.

I'll suggest that the O2 sensor is seeing the exhaust leak.

Cheers,

What is your advance between say 600 and 1100 rpm.  I have it   Between 8 and 10 degrees. I will share the 123 curve when I get home.

Ray has a point, if the system is still learning and shooting for a target AFR at idle, then yes the exhaust leak could be screwing with that a bit. Obviously something you want to fix anyway, so no reason to wait on that repair

Unless you have stupid high compression 8-10 sounds low to me. My experience is that M10s like a fair amount of advance, and for me that is mid-teens at idle up to high 30s or even 40 degrees all-in.

I agree that an exhaust leak, even a small one, before or near the o2 sensor, can indeed cause a hunting issue since the system is still in a large allowance for closed loop and learn until they are manually reduced.  Also, an exhaust leak will make it run overly rich, as well.  As far as the magnetic input for the distributor?  It is looking for a 12v square wave signal.  It is neither hall-effect or 5v.  I am still not 100% positive on how to wire that module.  I hate to say that 99% of our experience and testing with the system was done on American domestic vehicles.  -Luke @ Holley Tech

13 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Unless you have stupid high compression 8-10 sounds low to me. My experience is that M10s like a fair amount of advance, and for me that is mid-teens at idle up to high 30s or even 40 degrees all-in

I agree for side draft cars, especially; but the manual shows only 2-7 degrees at 1000rpm for a Tii. Buttttt...this being a TBI sitting on a standard single carb manifold, I'd go back to thinking that adding more advance early would probably help. I can't see where it would hurt? add 5 more degrees down low and see how it responds.

Ed

2 hours ago, Holley Tech said:

I agree that an exhaust leak, even a small one, before or near the o2 sensor, can indeed cause a hunting issue since the system is still in a large allowance for closed loop and learn until they are manually reduced.  Also, an exhaust leak will make it run overly rich, as well.  As far as the magnetic input for the distributor?  It is looking for a 12v square wave signal.  It is neither hall-effect or 5v.  I am still not 100% positive on how to wire that module.  I hate to say that 99% of our experience and testing with the system was done on American domestic vehicles.  -Luke @ Holley Tech

Thanks much, that is the information I was looking for.  I am sure there is a way to produce a 12V square wave output.   

Regarding the module, essentially you can put it on a hall sensor or points type dizzy, and wire the other end to a 5V power source and it will produce a 5V square wave output.  It can be used to take any hall effect type sender and convert it to 5V square wave.  It is often used for speedo output conversion with transmission swaps, among other things.  I wonder if I could wire it to 12V,  to get the same result,  likey not. 

In your experience is the leak at the header and the idle drop issue related?.  From my limited experience with GM's it will cause a problem with the idle hunting, but not a sudden drop to the point where the car stalls suddenly.

Thanks again for your help.   

11 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

Thanks much, that is the information I was looking for.  I am sure there is a way to produce a 12V square wave output.   

Regarding the module, essentially you can put it on a hall sensor or points type dizzy, and wire the other end to a 5V power source and it will produce a 5V square wave output.  It can be used to take any hall effect type sender and convert it to 5V square wave.  It is often used for speedo output conversion with transmission swaps, among other things.  I wonder if I could wire it to 12V,  to get the same result,  likey not. 

In your experience is the leak at the header and the idle drop issue related?.  From my limited experience with GM's it will cause a problem with the idle hunting, but not a sudden drop to the point where the car stalls suddenly.

Thanks again for your help.   

   

I do believe that it can indeed cause the issue you're having, but it is hard to say exactly.  It may not be THE problem, but I do know that it is certainly A problem.  Only way to really know is to fix it and see.  If it continues to have an issue after the header swap, take a couple more logs and let me know.  -Luke @ Holley Tech

Just F'n around with settings today while out for a drive.   I thought to myself; maybe less is more.   So I moved the decay on the IAC control from 6 seconds, down to 1.   This essentially means that when you put your foot down and the revs go above a pre-set level, in my case I think it is about 2000 rpm, when you then take your foot off, the EFI system lets the car return to idle at a set rate,  the less decay in seconds, the quicker this happens,  the more seconds, the more gradually this happens. 

I had it set at 6 seconds, which means when I take my foot off the gas above 2000 rpm, once it hits 2000 rpm on the way down, it will hold the IAC at a %, in my case 20%, for 6 seconds, then return to regular programming. 

The result of this was taking the foot off the gas,  Idle down gradually for 6 seconds to 850 rpm, then close the IAC to a typical duty cycle which Holley said should be between 2-10%, mine being about 5%.  Shortly after that it sometimes drops to 50 rpm, then recovers.

I then changed it to 1 second, so virtually no gradual return to idle.  I take my foot off, and it drops quickly to idle, and I find the dip much less.   What do you all make of this discovery?

BTW the header is stuck at the ceramic coating folks, so I don't know when I am going to see it.  I may need a loaner if I am going to get this working correctly. 

Sounds like it is fighting its own internal programming less?

Kinda.  I transferred and smoothed (once).  I will see what it does tomorrow. 

Ok good news the header is shipped.  Hopefully they put the bung in. 

Having said that, I am loosing hope that this is causing the issue with the idle bottoming out.  I suspect that the manifold is loading up with fuel on deceleration, and then dries up suddenly causing a rich and  then a  crazy lean condition and stalling.  Since the car doesn’t flow much the system is overcompensating then goes full rich, then cycles out again.   I have played a lot with it. Everything else I have mapped out ok in terms of if I change this , then that.  I just don’t think a leak at the header could cause this pronounced a problem. 

We we will know soon. 

Shouldn't the tps close during decel and shut off fuel delivery? That's how alpha n works. My AFRs go full lean on decel...

I think it tries to maintain afr during deceleration.  All questions I will be asking Holley once the header goes in.