It Works? !!!!

Dudeland

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So it is in and works.   But I can't tell how well it works because the Linx cable linkage that I modified sucks.  The gas pedal is more like an on-off switch, very sticky.  I haven't drifted the car so much in my life.  Genuinely entertaining, but quite harry at the same time, especially in downtown traffic. 

 

So I am in the midst of getting some bits made so I can use my sweet sweet heim joints.   I am copying what Australian Vespa Guy did with an L bracket thing mounted to the brake booster.

 

I have attached the first start video, but the linkage sticks, so the TPS hangs at 1% about half of the time (no closed loop learning), so setting the idle is useless until I straighten out the linkage. 

 

Kind regards and thank you all for your support.  Much more to come. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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AWESOME!!!!   Congratulations on start up and taking the leap on this project!  I bet it's going to work out great.

 

Very excited to hear more.

 

Ed

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That's great!  We're happy to see it going.  Something that can potentially help with the touchy throttle is a throttle lever extension, which gives better leverage/geometry for the linkage.  You may need a reducer bushing for the large hole, too.  Check out the links below.  -Luke @ Holley Tech
 

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/brackets_and_linkage/parts/1952

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/brackets_and_linkage/parts/26-103

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I just dropped off the air cleaner to get modified to fit on the new carb (or TBI .. i still think i will call it a carb) .  For those who are cringing please don't.  The air cleaner base was badly butchered when I got it.  I am doing it a favour having it nipped and tucked.   Once I get it back I will check the clearance and see what works in terms of linkage. 

 

The base needs to be dropped down (lifting the air cleaner)  by about a 1cm to sit on the carb top properly and clear the fuel lines. In addition, I had to rotate the fuel pressure sensor to the bottom to create some space.  I have about another 3.5 cm from the top of the air cleaner to the underside of the hood. I used Mintgrun's technique of using a playdough ball and closing the hood to get the measurement.  So in total, I will take the base and drop it down by about 4cm, raising the filter leaving about .5 to .75cm clearance, which should provide lots of breathing space.  The motor mounts are new, but still I will have to make sure under hard acceleration it doesn't hit the underside of the hood.  

 

I should have the L bracket back by the end of the week.  I wanted to take time and put in a proper & robust bearing for the bracket it to articulate on. 

 

Regards

 

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I am probably doing the process (and your ingenuity) a disservice here but you have made the whole process sound... easy. 

 

I think you had a few misapprehensions prior to starting down this road but it sounds like it has been relatively straightforward. 

 

Would that that be fair to say?

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Fantastic news! Congrats on the major success!!! Can't wait to hear how is running here shortly as you get things dialed in!

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I predict there is going to be a flood of orders in once this is up and running. 

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So I had time to get the air cleaner today and got it installed.   Almost looks stock.  I had him raise it about 4cm, but 3.5 would be better, I pushed it down a bit, and I have a full CM of clearance under the hood.    Yes the wingnut has a lock washer, but the first trip is to get a Nylock nut, I don't want to breathe that in.  I may put the factory support bracket back on it, as it would make it more secure. 

 

Next blog will be on the linkage. 

 

 

 

IMG_2895.thumb.JPG.8903bab30c6c8159dc97755b2d69745f.JPGIMG_2894.thumb.JPG.77e37bad76b2727e97026a7e82185005.JPG

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On 11/7/2018 at 10:40 PM, Simeon said:

I am probably doing the process (and your ingenuity) a disservice here but you have made the whole process sound... easy. 

 

I think you had a few misapprehensions prior to starting down this road but it sounds like it has been relatively straightforward. 

 

Would that that be fair to say?

The tough part isn't physically installing it, or getting the lines installed or wire it up or configure it for first startup, or linkage. 

 

Where the rubber hits the road is the performance and driveability of the car after it is installed and tuned completely   Does it drive nicely? Does it start nicely, is it able to idle correctly?.  Is it worth it?  Does it perform any better than a Chinese knockoff 32/36?  Is it an answer to a question nobody ever asked except for me?  

 

One thing that worries me slightly is that during the idle, there are small droplets of gas that pop out of the barrels as the injectors fire (look very closely at the video, and you can see a couple).  I know that it is learning, but at the end of the day, if it spits up gas, it may be game over.  

 

Now the injectors are firing at approximately 2.36ms, and the minimum pulse will go as low as 1ms (I think),  and the fuel pressure is at 63-64lbs, which is 4lb higher than recommended, so I am confident that the problem can be addressed. 

What I have is the laptop cable and will be hooking it up once the linkage is settled and I start into tuning. 

 

But yes so far so good.

 

P.S I haven't reached out to anyone regarding the higher fuel pressure, or the spitting.  I expect that the connection at the tank may be causing too much backpressure, causing the fuel pressure issue, which could precipitate the droplets, but I am guessing.  I am sure Luke from Holley would have a very good idea, but my objective is to get it learning before we start chasing down any issues. 

 

 

 

Edited by Dudeland

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On 11/8/2018 at 5:38 AM, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Fantastic news! Congrats on the major success!!! Can't wait to hear how is running here shortly as you get things dialed in!

Thanks much. In the next day or two, I should have the linkage done. 

 

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Congratulations on fitting the stock air cleaner.  Nice to see it already snorkeled up too.  It is hard for me to see the details of how it fits to the top of the Holley, but if it is possible to use stock mounting brackets, (or make something similar that fits where it sits), I think that will be effort well spent. 

 

One of the coolest things about the stock situation is the way they reach out and support it at the rim with those little rubber isolators that dampen vibration.  It will be trying to move around, sitting on top of the engine that vibrates and moves quite a bit.  All of that stress coming back to one bolt in the middle is icky fizix.

 

I have noticed that my air cleaner clearance issue is with the driver's side lip of the cover, where it has shaken hands with the hood brace a couple of times. 

 

Once because I did not tighten it down enough and it wiggled loose.  The other from improperly seating it. 

 

The fit is tight enough on mine that I have to tighten the driver's side first, followed by the nuts on the passenger side... making sure the driver's side is low.  It is good that mine is not a fancy car.  Also good that the contact has not been with the hood skin itself, where dents would be painfully obvious.  Just a little paint rubbed off the brace and lid (so far).

 

All that to say, I'd put a little clay on the far left lip and close the hood, to make sure clearance to the brace is good.

 

That air cleaner looks really nice.

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1 hour ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

Congratulations on fitting the stock air cleaner.  Nice to see it already snorkeled up too.  It is hard for me to see the details of how it fits to the top of the Holley, but if it is possible to use stock mounting brackets, (or make something similar that fits where it sits), I think that will be effort well spent. 

 

One of the coolest things about the stock situation is the way they reach out and support it at the rim with those little rubber isolators that dampen vibration.  It will be trying to move around, sitting on top of the engine that vibrates and moves quite a bit.  All of that stress coming back to one bolt in the middle is icky fizix.

 

I have noticed that my air cleaner clearance issue is with the driver's side lip of the cover, where it has shaken hands with the hood brace a couple of times. 

 

Once because I did not tighten it down enough and it wiggled loose.  The other from improperly seating it. 

 

The fit is tight enough on mine that I have to tighten the driver's side first, followed by the nuts on the passenger side... making sure the driver's side is low.  It is good that mine is not a fancy car.  Also good that the contact has not been with the hood skin itself, where dents would be painfully obvious.  Just a little paint rubbed off the brace and lid (so far).

 

All that to say, I'd put a little clay on the far left lip and close the hood, to make sure clearance to the brace is good.

 

That air cleaner looks really nice.

 

Thanks much for your response, I wondered where the low spot was.  I still have my bag of playdough I will let you know tomorrow where it ends up.  

 

I do have the stock braces, I removed them because I needed  some rubber bits, and the lid was held on with the four bolts in the Webber 

 

 

 

 

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Ok so I was able to take out the car for a bit of a drive,  The good news is that after fitting the air cleaner, the spitting issue seems to be a non-issue.  I after a short but somewhat spirited drive, I stopped the car, unclipped the lid and I would say it was so little gas that it is a non-issue.  I will continue to monitor the situation, but less of a worry.  I suspect that the directed flow helped catch the drops that were breaking loose. 

 

I played a bit with the linkage, I had it all eyeballed, but the heim joints had a 1/4 NF thread, all I had was NC rod, so I will have to put that off for another day or two. 

 

I lubed up the gas pedal area and it seemed to help a bit with the stickiness of the throttle, but still not a lot of fun. I don't have the time or patience to do a billet pedal as I will likely want to install the pedal box rebuild kit that I have.  

 

When I was driving it I did notice that it wasn't leaning out over 4K, which is nice,  Also, regardless of the gear or RPM, it didn't bog down when I put my foot down.... which was nice. 

 

Still, the learning is only at 23%, so lots of room for fine-tuning. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hey Dudeland,

 

Check out MLytle's article "Gas pedal to replace the evil nubs" in the tech article section.

 

This setup uses the existing gas pedal linkage but adds a bearing. Super easy and transforms the pedal feel. Totally smooth and not a complex install. 

 

Cool work you are doing, thanks for the blog time.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

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9 hours ago, Dudeland said:

Ok so I was able to take out the car for a bit of a drive,  The good news is that after fitting the air cleaner, the spitting issue seems to be a non-issue.  I after a short but somewhat spirited drive, I stopped the car, unclipped the lid and I would say it was so little gas that it is a non-issue.  I will continue to monitor the situation, but less of a worry.  I suspect that the directed flow helped catch the drops that were breaking loose. 

 

I played a bit with the linkage, I had it all eyeballed, but the heim joints had a 1/4 NF thread, all I had was NC rod, so I will have to put that off for another day or two. 

 

I lubed up the gas pedal area and it seemed to help a bit with the stickiness of the throttle, but still not a lot of fun. I don't have the time or patience to do a billet pedal as I will likely want to install the pedal box rebuild kit that I have.  

 

When I was driving it I did notice that it wasn't leaning out over 4K, which is nice,  Also, regardless of the gear or RPM, it didn't bog down when I put my foot down.... which was nice. 

 

Still, the learning is only at 23%, so lots of room for fine-tuning. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dudeland, there are 2 things I want to go over with you.

 

1.)  If droplets of fuel are coming out of the barrels initially, then the base fuel table is likely just too rich causing fuel to splash back out.  This is something that will generally clear itself up as it goes into learn for a little bit.

 

2.)  The learn percentage that is shown on the handheld is not a progress report.  It is how much it is adding or taking away from the base fuel table.  So in theory, the smaller the number (closer to zero), the better off you are.  After a little more drive time, be sure to go in and transfer the learned data to the base.  This will reset the learn table, and should reduce the learn percentages you see after the transfer.  To do this, follow the below steps.

 

Tuning>Advanced>Advanced Learn>Transfer Table Run>Do you want to smooth the table with the learned values?>OK

 

-Luke @ Holley Tech

 

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Excellent news all around.  I'm so glad to see all the progress; very motivating, indeed.

 

Linkage... a common hangup when folks go to a different carburetor, or to sidedrafts... lots of homemade brackets and such.  Keep it as simple as possible...

 

You may be able to use a cable set up from TEP that has a bracket that attaches to the brake booster bracket.  

 

Image result for TEP throttle linkage

 

Ed

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My experience is apples and oranges for your application (MSII, different injectors, etc etc) but 60+PSI seems excessive for fuel pressure.  I would have suspected a fuel pressure in the range of 30-40 PSI for a relatively tame 4 banger.  I wonder if the pressure is part of the reason you have fuel dripping?  You had mentioned that it was over the recommended max pressure. 

 

Zach

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4 minutes ago, vacca rabite said:

My experience is apples and oranges for your application (MSII, different injectors, etc etc) but 60+PSI seems excessive for fuel pressure.  I would have suspected a fuel pressure in the range of 30-40 PSI for a relatively tame 4 banger.  I wonder if the pressure is part of the reason you have fuel dripping?  You had mentioned that it was over the recommended max pressure. 

 

Zach

Actually the Sniper has injectors that are rated at about 60psi for proper function.  So anywhere between 55-65psi is considered acceptable.   -Luke @ Holley Tech

Edited by Holley Tech

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Ok, so I was able to somehow get the linkage "done".  I will have to go back and put nylock and locktite on everything and pretty up my L bracket (maybe).  I am shocked that it went in and worked on the first attempt. 

 

I got my local guy to press fit in a bearing in the pivot, so it is buttery smooth (part number coming for the bearing).  I attached it to the side of the booster bracket and checked to see if it interfered with any linkage, but it was free and clear. 

 

So now it is the beginning of the end in terms of the install.  I will need to put a little more length on the booster hose, but in my short drive tomorrow everything seems to be settling down and in the right place. 

 

I did have the TEP bracket installed and modified for my application.  I think it may be able to work if you change the pivot point closer on the bracket at the pedal box, but it was way too sticky to drive..... like break something in the drivetrain sticky.  I already had the nice heim joint accelerator rod ala Harry 6422 (no association), so I wanted to use that.  Without it, I think the job would have been a lot more difficult, the ability to orient the rod and adjust the length meant I got it in late last night. 

 

That being said the L bracket looks like it has been "hacked by a blind woodsman' ala fugu episode of the Simpsons.  it is cut from 1/4 inch plate, and I only have an angle grinder, so please be gentle on your assessment. I shot for beefy & safe, and I feel that I hit that mark.  I didn't want it flexing or twisting, and I wanted to provide a good seat to press the bearing into. 

 

Next blog will detail some of the basic the tuning. I will do a data log so people can download them and take a look at what is going on in terms of the fuel map and possibly provide feedback and advice.   I will pull the plugs just because, and generally go through everything one more time. 

 

Thanks, everyone for your feedback and advice

 

P.S I haven't forgotten about the fuel line return into the gas the tank, I just have to burn down this tank to make it easier to have my guy install it. 

 

 

 

 

IMG_2898.thumb.JPG.0a6db13deb675a06ac03ced7417f3dbc.JPG

 

23 hours ago, zinz said:

Excellent news all around.  I'm so glad to see all the progress; very motivating, indeed.

 

Linkage... a common hangup when folks go to a different carburetor, or to sidedrafts... lots of homemade brackets and such.  Keep it as simple as possible...

 

You may be able to use a cable set up from TEP that has a bracket that attaches to the brake booster bracket.  

 

Image result for TEP throttle linkage

 

Ed

1

 

IMG_2897.JPG

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On 11/13/2018 at 6:49 AM, Holley Tech said:

Dudeland, there are 2 things I want to go over with you.

 

1.)  If droplets of fuel are coming out of the barrels initially, then the base fuel table is likely just too rich causing fuel to splash back out.  This is something that will generally clear itself up as it goes into learn for a little bit.

 

2.)  The learn percentage that is shown on the handheld is not a progress report.  It is how much it is adding or taking away from the base fuel table.  So in theory, the smaller the number (closer to zero), the better off you are.  After a little more drive time, be sure to go in and transfer the learned data to the base.  This will reset the learn table, and should reduce the learn percentages you see after the transfer.  To do this, follow the below steps.

 

Tuning>Advanced>Advanced Learn>Transfer Table Run>Do you want to smooth the table with the learned values?>OK

 

-Luke @ Holley Tech

 

Ok so in the next couple of days I will do a log, and integrate the learning via the smoothing option.  I did watch some online videos but I will have to familiarise myself with the laptop software. 

 

 

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