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Electrical sparks, flickering, and smoke


Mark42

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I think I have a real problem now.  

 

I don't know if I caused it, or if I just noticed it because this is the first time that I've been around my car at night - other than last night, which I drove it around the neighborhood after dark for 5 minutes.

 

I posted about the rear side marker bulbs and finally went out a few minutes ago to try the new bulbs.

 

I inserted the new bulb in the left rear side marker and turned it.  It never felt solidly in - but I tried turning on the running lights.  No light from the marker bulb.  I pressed gently on the bulb and it flickered on/off and sparked a bit.  It was a bright bulb.  (this is the 12 v 4 w 2.8 cp bulb).  I removed it and inserted the original bulb.  Same thing happened.

 

I spent a few more seconds trying to seat the bulb.  At that point I noticed the other lights along the rear flickering.  (I had the trunk open and could see them from inside the trunk).

 

I turned off the running lights and removed the side marker bulb at this point.

 

I removed the cover from the inside of the back left turn signal lights, looked (it looked ok) and did not touch any part of the turn signal wiring.

 

I returned to the side marker and carefully wiggled the rubber cup on the back side.  I thought that I might need to get in from the back to tighten up the copper connectors.  I still couldn't get the cup off and didn't want to force it.

 

I tried inserting the original bulb again.  At that point, my wife noticed that the right rear running light on the right tail light was out.  I hadn't noticed that before.  I looked over, and then noticed that the license plate lights were very dim.  This is the first time I've really looked at my car at dusk, and hadn't noticed anything about the lights before.

 

I sat down to take a picture of the lights.  I started with the left rear turn signal, which looked normal. (this is with the running lights on, but the head lights are off)

post-48847-0-53678300-1437874723_thumb.j

 

I got up to take a pic of the right side, which was off - and as I took the picture, the light came on again and the license lights brightened.

post-48847-0-54632400-1437874733_thumb.j

 

I stopped for 2 seconds to think about that, and suddenly smelled smoke.  It was coming from the top-right corner (if you look at it from the rear of the car) of the left turn signal light.

 

I ran to shut off the running lights.

 

I felt around and noticed that the outside metal bracket of the left side marker was slightly warm.  (The light had not been in the socket except for only a few seconds while I was wiggling it.)

post-48847-0-62053800-1437874995_thumb.j

 

I felt on the inside of the side marker - on the rubber cup and the wire, and both were warm.  The wire was too warm.  There's no way that it should have been that warm.  I felt the other wires and none were even slightly warm.

post-48847-0-85684700-1437874479_thumb.j

 

Cheers,

1974 - 2002 - "Fozzie"

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sounds like you have a short in your wiring....i would invest $10.00 in a 12V test light with the alligator clip on the end and a metal point/probe on the business end that lights to tell you power is present and a cheap continuity tester that lights up....start checking your wires from the fuse box to the next junction and so on all the way to here the wire terminates at the fixture...

 

have you tried just unplugging the side markers and see if all other lights work as they should...if they do, you need to look at the side markers...remove the fixtures...make sure a wire isn't shorting on the fixture or inside the fixture...check those wires back to the fuse box

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I just ran through an electrical issue myself, and started at the fuse box, checking for continuity between each fuse and chassis ground. When I found the circuit with the dead short, I knew where to start looking. No need to power the circuits to trouble shoot.

 

Scott


I just ran through an electrical issue myself, and started at the fuse box, checking for continuity between each fuse and chassis ground. When I found the circuit with the dead short, I knew where to start looking. No need to power the circuits to trouble shoot.

 

You just need a simple volt meter: http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Digital-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Ohmmeter/dp/B00KHP6EIK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437923393&sr=8-1&keywords=voltage+meter

 

Scott

Edited by sislane

1976 2002 Custom Dk Blue w/ Pearl

1975 2002A Sahara (sold Feb 2008)

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I just ran through an electrical issue myself, and started at the fuse box, checking for continuity between each fuse and chassis ground. When I found the circuit with the dead short, I knew where to start looking. No need to power the circuits to trouble shoot.

Scott

I just ran through an electrical issue myself, and started at the fuse box, checking for continuity between each fuse and chassis ground. When I found the circuit with the dead short, I knew where to start looking. No need to power the circuits to trouble shoot.

You just need a simple volt meter: http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Digital-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Ohmmeter/dp/B00KHP6EIK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437923393&sr=8-1&keywords=voltage+meter

Scott

I've been watching videos on YouTube this morning and have already noticed that different people have different methods for doing the same thing and they often say something casually without much detail, suggesting that it could cause more problems to do it some other way, or that the settings on the volt meter could screw up something if not just right. The problem for me is in the lack of detail around those points. I don't know the first thing about it to begin with and wouldn't recognize if someone gave good or bad advice.

Could someone post a link to a video that tells exactly what I should do and does it correctly?

Cheers,

1974 - 2002 - "Fozzie"

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Also, please help me understand the risk in starting the car and with driving it during the day without the headlights on. I'm supposed to take it to the shop for inspection on Monday. Now I'm concerned that I'll have an electric fire or melt the wires if I try to drive it.

Cheers,

1974 - 2002 - "Fozzie"

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Let's see if I can help.

You will need to see the wire connections to the light fixture to see where the electrical short is.

To get a look at the wires the fixture needs to be loosened from the fender.  Remove the two black nuts from inside the trunk and push the black cover so the fixture comes to the outside of the car.

Once outside the car, peel back the rubber base so you can see the wires like I have done to my fixture in the pic.

The black wire is the hot one when the lights are turned on and has an insulation piece under the riveted wire connection to the fixture..  When the bulb is inserted, the center contact of the bulb should touch the spring contact the wire is ultimately connected to. . The hot wire and any part of the spring contact should not touch the fixture or it grounds out (shorts out) and draws a lot of amps.  If it shorts, the amps heat the wire and as you noted that's not good.

The circuit does not ground thru the fixture mounting like some of the other lights at the car front turn signals.  It grounds the circuit thru the brown wire.   Europeans use brown wires for grounds and call them earths (that's the color of the ground in most of Europe).

So have a close look and fix any shorting you have.  You can insert the bulb and switch on the lights for a final check without reinstalling the fixture and the lamp should light.

put the fixture back into the rubber base and slide it back into the trunk wall and replace the nuts.  They are plastic so do not over tighten.

Jim

post-9282-0-01856500-1437927210_thumb.jp

Edited by jimk

A radiator shop is a good place to take a leak.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing but I know I'm really good at it.

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Let's see if I can help.

You will need to see the wire connections to the light fixture to see where the electrical short is.

To get a look at the wires the fixture needs to be loosened from the fender. Remove the two black nuts from inside the trunk and push the black cover so the fixture comes to the outside of the car.

Once outside the car, peel back the rubber base so you can see the wires like I have done to my fixture in the pic.

The black wire is the hot one when the lights are turned on and has an insulation piece under the riveted wire connection to the fixture.. When the bulb is inserted, the center contact of the bulb should touch the spring contact the wire is ultimately connected to. . The hot wire and any part of the spring contact should not touch the fixture or it grounds out (shorts out) and draws a lot of amps. If it shorts, the amps heat the wire and as you noted that's not good.

The circuit does not ground thru the fixture mounting like some of the other lights at the car front turn signals. It grounds the circuit thru the brown wire. Europeans use brown wires for grounds and call them earths (that's the color of the ground in most of Europe).

So have a close look and fix any shorting you have. You can insert the bulb and switch on the lights for a final check without reinstalling the fixture and the lamp should light.

put the fixture back into the rubber base and slide it back into the trunk wall and replace the nuts. They are plastic so do not over tighten.

Jim

Is this beyond repairing without replacing?

post-48847-14379312092057_thumb.jpgpost-48847-14379312303552_thumb.jpg

Cheers,

1974 - 2002 - "Fozzie"

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Looks as if the hot lead's plastic insulator has given up the ghost.  And it's the kind of plastic that glue doesn't like to stick to, and with it under tension from the bronze spring, glue isn't gonna hold it in place.  Replace it.  Used side marker lights are easy to find here on the board, as they don't go bad very often.  And all you need is the housing, not the lens or rubber gasket so it should be easy to find.  

Now you see why the PO didn't have either rear side marker working...

 

mike

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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I couldn't fit the roundish piece into the square hole. There is very little to no play in the wires; can't pull them out further.

When replacing, would the new part need to include the wire assembly?

If so, do you know off hand how far that wire runs through the car to the other end?

Bottom line, can I crank and or drive my car with this as is? I need to get it to the shop tomorrow. I may as well have them fix it. I just want to get it there for now. Should I wrap the connector end of the wire with elec tape to keep the ends from touching before cranking and driving?

Cheers,

1974 - 2002 - "Fozzie"

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Looks as if the hot lead's plastic insulator has given up the ghost. And it's the kind of plastic that glue doesn't like to stick to, and with it under tension from the bronze spring, glue isn't gonna hold it in place. Replace it. Used side marker lights are easy to find here on the board, as they don't go bad very often. And all you need is the housing, not the lens or rubber gasket so it should be easy to find.

Now you see why the PO didn't have either rear side marker working...

mike

Yeah it seems like a tough piece to hack together as is. The seal is about half dry rotted. Felt brittle as I pealed it away from the metal base.

Cheers,

1974 - 2002 - "Fozzie"

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