engine and drivetrain Best Ignition Upgrades For Weber Dcoes?

[jrhone]

I have a semi hot rodded engine and my next step is to add the sidedrafts. I have a tii distributor, black coil and pertronix on it now. It's got high compression Pistons, weber 38 downdraft, 292 cam and headers. So I want hot spark. I want performance but reliability and ease of use. So for ignition do I go Crane or MSD? Which models? What coil? Red, blue, black, MSD Blaster? Also why? I have seen lots of combinations just want to know why I'd use a certain ignition and a certain coil. Thanks!  I looked through the archives and read a bunch but it seems both MSD and Crane have new ignition systems, the old ones have been discontinued.

Edited October 28, 2014 by jrhone

[jimk]

If you want a HOT, RELIABLE ingnition system, dump all that old stuff and install an Electromotive crank triggered system with a 60-2 trigger wheel (36 tooth is too slow on a fast reving system)

[Arizona02]

Recommend using mid 1980's BMW 318i exhaust manifold gasket since it has a heat shield deflector to protect the boots of spark plugs wires.

[TobyB]

What you have is fine for DCOE's. 

 

Fuel is fuel.  Air is air.  As long as you're getting the right amount of

both, points still work fine- they're just a bit fussier.

 

Make sure your current ignition is performing well-

and then leave it alone.  INCLUDING timing.

 

Then when the carbs misbehave, you'll know it's not the ignition.

And that is sometimes more than half the battle...

 

t

[jrhone]

Really??  OK…my hesitation on installing them is the ignition.  I have looked at them on my shelf for literally 3-4 years.  Current system is and has been rock solid….zero issues.  Yes fuel is fuel and air is air, but with the potential of more air and fuel in the combustion chamber, wouldn't I need hotter spark to ignite it properly?  I have also read that because the fuel is burned more completely the engine usually runs cleaner and idles smoother.  Wrong?

[KFunk]

DCOEs will work fine with points.  I did it for years.  Extra spark is fun, but I wouldn't call it essential.  

[jdeitch]

Comments above are spot on, however...

I installed a complete MSD ignition to include a pro billet distributor. Quick starts, even idle, better MPG & MPH. I'm very happy with the conversion.

FYI - I also recently removed my dual sidedraft carbs for a single Weber downdraft 38/38.

Dual sidedrafts are sexy, but the 38/38 is MUCH easier to live with and will deliver essentially the same performance without all of the headaches. (I know. Been there, done that.)

IMHO the best mild performance, streetable 2002 engine consists of: M10 high compression engine, 292 cam, headers, stock intake with water bypass and port matched to Weber 38/38 and a strong ignition. You are very close to an excellent, livable, reliable 2002 power plant.

Edited October 28, 2014 by jdeitch

[jdeitch]

FYI - Comparison between standard ignition and MSD ignition.

[LimeySteve]

John there will be a revolutionary system available soon for the M10 , watch this space ........

[Rocan]

Nothing beats a crank triggered system. I run a megajolt EDIS setup with a 36-1 trigger wheel from 02again. best upgrade to the engine I ever made; completely adjustable ignition map for RPM and load sensing. engine starts instantly... within 1 revolution usually... in all weather with the help of the coolant sensor. Idle is rock solid and the responsiveness is just unbelievable. I can bury the throttle in 4th from idle and it will pull up to redline without hesitation or missing. The rev limiter can save you in case you mess things up and overrev the engine. Maintenance is more or less non-existent. I've ran my car for nearly 2 years now, every single day, rain, shine, snow, hail, floods... you name it... and it always started right up. This is with a weber 32/36.... so no efi magic. 

 

Contrary to what Jim said, I think the 36-1 is a better trigger wheel. the 60-2 is actually the one that has trouble at high rpms... though really most issues people have are due to poor wiring... anyway I digress.

 

This is the best system out there and worth every penny. It's also a preliminary step to going full EFI, once you see the light . 

 

just do it and be satisfied. no more chasing for the correct ignition timing and settling for "good enough". Do it once. do it right. 

[jimk]

Actually a 60-2 wheel is good to 12,000 rpm.  The downside of a 36 tooth wheel is if the engine is accelerating in rpm, it takes twice as long as the new rpm is detected and the old spark advance nor fuel requirements are not updated.

 

I think the issue at high rpm is the use of a hall sensor instead of a VR sensor and an incorrectly cut missing tooth section (people are selling electromotive knock-offs) on the 60-2 wheel.

 

My data logs with a Haltech Sport will show whether there is a sync loss or a ignition miss and hasn't been any so far using the wheel on both the M10 and S14.

 

BTW, BMW uses a 60-2 with a VR sensor.

Edited October 28, 2014 by jimk

[Rocan]

Correct on all accounts jim. I think one would be very hard pressed to tell the difference in responsiveness between the 36-1 and the 60-2. 

[LimeySteve]

http://compu-tronix.com/DIS4F23L.htm

 

 

Above is the link to Compu-tronix , they are working on a unit for M10 engines right now I have one of the above for my Folvo project which is getting 2 45 Webers & this ignition , price is good & reading the data it fits the bill.It's a stand alone system ideal for side drafts .

[jrhone]

Steve. That looks amazing! Thanks everyone for the input. So the bottom line is spending a lot of coin on the ignition won't do a huge things for me and going to a EDIS system is the way to go.

[bob02]

FWIW, it may be wise to leave your setup on there at least until you can get the 40's running well. This way, you're not fighting two battles at once.

  My car runs the old stuff, which i prefer(red coil, tii dist, points). Zero issues, about as reliable as it gets, and all the spares fit in the glove box.

 

Good luck,

  bob