Radiator

Diggin' the pics! What's with the headers on the engine though? They look kinda off, like they have a boxy extension on the tops of the tubes.
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'74 2002 (undergoing Megasquirt conversion!)

I believe those are "reinforcing" tabs to help mitigate cracking at that location. Need to research that a bit more though.

Hi Mark.

Wow. I am breathless. That car has always stomped people as it was a mix of Schnitzer and Alpina technologies. I like very much the 1st generation body in white with stripes. The angular wheel openings are kinda unique.

Those wheels not only look wide, but they also seem to be 15". Am I wrong?

yeah those definately look like gussets to the header flange. I have seen this on other vintage alfa cars as well. I think with today with stainless steel, a good welder and and high tech tig machine. These gussets are probably not needed. My guess is they might of been using mild steel for the headers....and maybe not supporting the exhaust headers very well.

than again racing is harsh, curbs and off road excursions can cause the occasional large load on the headers and crack them. So extra gussets can't hurt. Might make install and removal a bit of a pain.


Radiators?

like for the coolant?

Or radiators/heat exchangers for diff oil and tranny oil?
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68' 1602
98' ///M3 Sedan

88' ///M3 Sold *
06' ///M3 Competition Pkg Sold *

http://www.bmw1602.com/

11"x15" front and 13"x15" rear. I opened up my "Alpina" wheels album so you can see them.

Mark wrote:

11"x15" front and 13"x15" rear. I opened up my "Alpina" wheels album so you can see them.

Thanks for that positive answer. That car is one good argument against the old zealot Historic Racing guard who thinks that 2002s can't have 15" wheels. Alpina (and certainly others) did it, and therefore it should be acceptable as this "technology" was used in the days.

Now about brakes. 4-wheel discs? He, he...

I will take a look at the ALPINA wheel album. Thanks.


Last edited by Lee on 9-26-07 10:43; edited 1 time in total

It is my understanding that it is all of the above (water radiator, oil coolers - diff and engine). I am expecting to recieve some information in the not too distant future from ALPINA on the exact arrangement.

Yes, 4 wheel discs, 30mm x 300mm radially vented front discs (w/aluminum hat) and AP Lockheed "period" 4 piston (aluminum) calipers, rears are solid disc (w/ alum hat) PORSCHE (ATE) 911s aluminum calipers.

Mark wrote:

Yes, 4 wheel discs, 30mm x 300mm radially vented front discs (w/aluminum hat) and AP Lockheed "period" 4 piston (aluminum) calipers, rears are solid disc (w/ alum hat) PORSCHE (ATE) 911s aluminum calipers.

Hey Mark. That's all good news. A bunch of us who are vintage racing (historic racing to be more precise) have had problems having 15" wheels and 4-wheel disc brakes accepted by some tech inspectors (usually the old guard). But as long as that technology was used in the days, it opens up a large lever for acceptation from Vintage authorities.

Thanks again.

Lee

holy contact patch batman! nice pics
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King of Avatar
M20-02 blog

Lee unfortunately most of these inspectors I dont think know what is going and aren't familiar with what was correctly homologated for these cars. ALPINA was as far as I know the first (and only) in 1974 to use 15" wheels, everyone else was using 13' and 14".

Attached are the FIA regs for Historic racing cars....

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/histracing.html

Mark wrote:

It is my understanding that it is all of the above (water radiator, oil coolers - diff and engine). I am expecting to recieve some information in the not too distant future from ALPINA on the exact arrangement.

wow! I wonder why?

Maybe they sealed off the the front of the car off for better aerodynamics?

maybe more chances of continuing a endurance type race in case you damage the front of the car? I can't image it is for better cooling?
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68' 1602
98' ///M3 Sedan

88' ///M3 Sold *
06' ///M3 Competition Pkg Sold *

http://www.bmw1602.com/

Lee wrote:

Hey Mark. That's all good news. A bunch of us who are vintage racing (historic racing to be more precise) have had problems having 15" wheels and 4-wheel disc brakes accepted by some tech inspectors (usually the old guard). But as long as that technology was used in the days, it opens up a large lever for acceptation from Vintage authorities. Thanks again. Lee

Well it all depends. In my case in VARA here in the west coast Eligeble cars for entry only up to 1972.

For production cars like ours the rule are that we can only run +1" over production spec. So 14".

In our case what they actually ran is irrelevant since they are basing the rules off of the production car. Our rules are production based. for example, we can run any config we want on the front brakes but sine the PRODUCTION car came with drums in the rear that what we have to run regardless that most race cars of the era already converting to disks int he rear.

Of course they do allow you to run them in other classes I think but then you get stuck with cars that are waay faster than you.

The other problem is since it appeared on a racing car older than 1972 (mark's case) then it is outside of date allowed by VARA.

But we do have square tail light 2002's racing with us so they are flexible with their 1972 rule. I suppose and argument can be made.

It will eventually have to happen I guess, as 13" race rubber is now limited to toyo and hoosier. 14" even harder to find. My guess is that eventually they will allow the more popular 15" size. For ease of tire availability and selection and maybe in price in the future.

then again who knows really..........
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68' 1602
98' ///M3 Sedan

88' ///M3 Sold *
06' ///M3 Competition Pkg Sold *

http://www.bmw1602.com/

1972 has probably been the same cut-off date for more than 20 years. VARAC has G70+ which is for car up to 1985 (including e30s and e30 M3s, Porsche 944, etc). But this class has a lot of enemies from the old guard directors (which is why I am refusing to sign up to any VARAC event until the old guard leaves). Times are changing, so do cars. A Honda Civic can also be considered a Historic racecar if it was built before 1984... Not everyone wants to race a Ford T, and every year new cars are being designed and produced.

If VARA/VARAC rules were to be strictly applied, then this ALPINA car wouldn't be allowed. Hmmm... Racecars are racecars, and are meant to be upgraded. Racing cars that are based closely on factory cars is a nonsense. What contemporary racecar has stock brakes, stock suspension, stock engine?

Mark,

You have done a fantastic job researching, acquiring and putting those pictures together on your special car. The pictures alone contain quite a bit of history and your dialog on each one is that much more impressive. Really good work on a piece of Alpina/BMW racing history.

Garry
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73 2002tii a4
67 Mini Coooper S (sold 3/06)
03 Mini Cooper S

Lee wrote:

1972 has probably been the same cut-off date for more than 20 years. VARAC has G70+ which is for car up to 1985 (including e30s and e30 M3s, Porsche 944, etc). But this class has a lot of enemies from the old guard directors (which is why I am refusing to sign up to any VARAC event until the old guard leaves). Times are changing, so do cars. A Honda Civic can also be considered a Historic racecar if it was built before 1984... Not everyone wants to race a Ford T, and every year new cars are being designed and produced. If VARA/VARAC rules were to be strictly applied, then this ALPINA car wouldn't be allowed. Hmmm... Racecars are racecars, and are meant to be upgraded. Racing cars that are based closely on factory cars is a nonsense. What contemporary racecar has stock brakes, stock suspension, stock engine?

I agree with you completely. Lets see what happens in the coming years....
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68' 1602
98' ///M3 Sedan

88' ///M3 Sold *
06' ///M3 Competition Pkg Sold *

http://www.bmw1602.com/

Now back on topic. I am also very impressed by Mark's perseverance in finding the true origin of his car. We are witnessing the uncovering of some of BMW's history in Motorsport and I am immensely grateful to Mark for sharing it with us.

If I understand, that car is the last 2002 racecar that Alpina ever built and campaigned.

Lee wrote:

1972 has probably been the same cut-off date for more than 20 years. VARAC has G70+ which is for car up to 1985 (including e30s and e30 M3s, Porsche 944, etc).

I think the 70+ class from Varac includes 1973 to 1987 cars (rolling 15 year rule) and it advances each year so next year it will be up to 1988.

We are looking at implementing a similar class here in Alberta.

The times do need to change or we will all see dwindling numbers going forward...

What a great job you are doing, not only on the car, but compiling this piece of history on this, very unique (one) automobile. Thanks for sharing!
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72 tii A4

Don't argue with anyone that will not consider the possibility of being wrong...
the future is a dream, the present infinitesimally brief, but the memories are forever...

bmw1602.com wrote:

Mark wrote: It is my understanding that it is all of the above (water radiator, oil coolers - diff and engine). I am expecting to recieve some information in the not too distant future from ALPINA on the exact arrangement. wow! I wonder why? Maybe they sealed off the the front of the car off for better aerodynamics? maybe more chances of continuing a endurance type race in case you damage the front of the car? I can't image it is for better cooling?

Thanks for more great pictures Mark.

The main benefit to all the cooling at the rear is weight distribution. In a perfect world, 40/60 split is ideal. In a touring car, 50/50 is lucky with a front engine. Sealing the front off would also help aerodynamics. I'm still slowly working on my project '74 racer and every little ounce of weight I can shift to the back, I will. Remember the alternator in the trunk on my parts car Pedro?