BMW 2002 FAQ - Detailed S14 swap questions

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Thread Topic: Detailed S14 swap questions

Date: 8-14-07 07:50
From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX

Subject: Detailed S14 swap questions

Finally finishing up the full rebuild on my S14. Attempting to prep the engine bay for the swap. I have a couple of concerns/questions...

Just for some background. this will be a track car that will be running in +100F Texas heat.

1) Coolant expansion tank: E30M3 has one, '02 does not. Is it necessary in my situation? I really dont understand why the S14 got one and the M10 did not. If so, have people just used the E30 setup?

2) Fan cooling: Ideally I would like to use an electric fan. But from searching on here for M10 setups it seems the only possible setup is a pusher fan in front of the radiator. Problem is I would like to use the stock e30m3 oil cooler setup. The only place I see to mount it would be in front of the radiator. I guess I could use the mechanical S14 fan... but I'd really rather not. So I guess my question is, with the S14 in, will there be any room to mount a puller between the radiator and the motor or are you left with the same space restraint as with the M10(no space at all)? Is it at all possible to mount the stock oil cooler and a 13" pusher in front of the radiator together?

3) Wiring: I have the Aardvark manual. Seems almost too simple. Any advice/warnings from those that have gone through the process. I assume the three vacuum resistors mounted on the firewall can be removed('76). Anything else I can get rid of?

4) Throttle cable: Any other solutions out there other than the Honda adaptation Aardvark suggests?

5) Oil pan: I'd like to run VAC's large pan. Anyone (other than Ian) running their hybrid pan? Hesitant due to fitment issues.

6) Oil filter: Blunt, in your thread you said that only a short filter will work in the stock location. Which short filter?

Thanks guys.
_________________
1990 325i
1976 2002

Last edited by madjurgen on 8-14-07 08:09; edited 1 time in total

Date: 8-14-07 08:05
From: Ian in Rochester, NY

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

From my experience:

1) You don't need the coolant expansion tank, a 320i radiator will work fine by itself.

2) There is no room for a puller fan. In fact, you will have to grind the nose off of the M3 water pump to fit. The fit is so close that you will have to pull the radiator to gt the distributor cap off. To make this easier I made to mounting stanchions for the fan to the body rather than to the radiator, to make it easier to pull the radiator. If you need to run an oil cooler, they are small and could probably fit inext to the passenger-side headlight bucket.

3) The wiring really is that simple.

4) Don't know.

5) The VAC pan does hit the passenger side subframe on my car. I think I'm going to switch to an M3 motor mount, which attaches to the subframe at a point ahead of the housing for the pittman arm, and should clear the pan and stabilize the engine better than the stock mount. I'll trim the passenger-side subframe to fit.

6) The standard E30 M3 oil filter fits fine, at least with the stock intake plenum.

Hope this was helpful,
Ian
'76 M2

Date: 8-14-07 08:08 From: peteinjp in Toyama, Japan Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
I'll be running the stock 02 fan at first because I have it. Puller fans are said to be more efficient and come in some pretty slim sizes. If I can find one that fits I'll be fitting one behind the radiator and using the 2002 pump. As long as its overall size is slimmer than the stock fan it should work in term so f engine clearance. What radiator are you using?

Date: 8-14-07 08:20 From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Very helpful as always Ian. So did you just use Aardvark's solution for the throttle cable? What did you do in regards to the VAC pan hitting your swaybar? So you are going to use the passenger side M3 motor mount arm? Where does the bottom end up attaching to? _________________ 1990 325i 1976 2002

Date: 8-14-07 09:22
From: Ian in Rochester, NY

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

I bought my engine from Pete McHenry, and he included the throttle cable, It consisted of a bracket that mounted at the pedal box with a cable stop, so the accelerator pedal would pull the cable.

The VAC pan does hit my Ireland Engineering swayba. However, Ireland now make a "drop bar" that is 1" lower in the crossbar area that runs under the oilpan. I just got mine, and it clears the pan fine.

I'm not quite sure where the M3 mount will attach to the 2002 subframe, but I'll weld a fitting to the subframe to accept the mount. I think Ireland makes a urethane bushing for the M3 mount as well.

Ian

Date: 8-15-07 12:00
From: NickVyse in Provence, France

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

1) Coolant expansion tank: not sure of the benefits, but I run the expansion tank. Presumably there's a benefit other wise manufacturers wouldn't have started using them.

2) Pusher. As Ian said, there will be no room for an electric puller whatever you do. V.tight - I can only just get my rad out with the engine in. My oil cooler is a little smaller than the m3 one and mounts on it's top face to the underside of the front panel, forward of any issues with the fan.

3) Don't know - shit with wiring and didn't do mine.

4) Shop that did mine scratched thier head for a few minutes and made one up - sounds similar to Ians set-up.

5) Seems like a lot of money for something that isn't plug and play. Lovely looking though!

6) Oil filter: stock, but I preume fitment issues are with LHD steering box??

Nick
_________________
1973 m2 Touring - RHD. Asleep dreaming of a new body
1967 1600-2 LHD. Daily use
1967 1600-2 LHD. Parts car
1972 2002Tii LHD. Resto project

Date: 8-15-07 12:14 From: peteinjp in Toyama, Japan Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Yep those guys are right- i forgot that the fan is off set over the water pump shaft- no room for a puller.

Date: 8-15-07 05:05 From: Lee in Montreal Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
A question about moving the engine to the back. Is there any room? I don't mind modifying stock motor mounts. But if I move the engine by 1/2" to 1", will it wotk? Will the oil pan hit the subframee, or the head hit the bulkhead? Lee

Date: 8-15-07 07:18 From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Do you have to request the "drop bar" or is part of the standard sway bar setup they sell? Just bought my bars a few weeks ago, wondering which bar I got. Lee, do you plan on utilizing a coolant expansion tank? _________________ 1990 325i 1976 2002

Date: 8-15-07 07:36
From: Lee in Montreal

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

Hi Jurgen

I already have an aluminum e21 radiator, which is a good thing, and don't see why I should add extra weight for a coolant reservoir. That is an extra 2kg weight on the front (with coolant). I will simply block off the tubes on the engine. Using a reservoir, is only more problems (leaking cap, leaking sensor rings, and cracked reservoir). As my 02 is a racecar, I don't have time for extra problems. The simpler, the better.

Lee

Date: 8-15-07 07:38 From: Ian in Rochester, NY Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
I think you have to request the drop bar. You can tell by looking at the bar: the regular bar has no drop. If in doubt give Jeff a call. You could probably exchange the bar if you haven't installed it yet. Ian

Date: 8-15-07 07:41 From: Ian in Rochester, NY Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Lee, I'll have to check tonight, but I suspect the M10 oilpan would hit the subframe if you moved the engine back 1". Not sure about the head, it might make it but it would be tight since the S14 is so tall. Ian '76 M2

Date: 8-15-07 08:12 From: peteinjp in Toyama, Japan Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Pulling it back would solve any clearance problem with the idler arm and header as well.

Date: 8-15-07 08:33 From: NickVyse in Provence, France Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Bulkhead won't be your limiting factor - the subframe will, but I'm sure you could squeeze a couple of cm's out of it. Always wanted to mount the engine lower and further back - perhaps it's time for a group buy on a custom sump. _________________ 1973 m2 Touring - RHD. Asleep dreaming of a new body 1967 1600-2 LHD. Daily use 1967 1600-2 LHD. Parts car 1972 2002Tii LHD. Resto project

Date: 8-15-07 08:39 From: Ian in Rochester, NY Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Nice thing about the Ireland drop bar is it runs across the width of the VAC uber-pan, acting as a protective structure. I plan to make a skid plat under the pan anyway, but would hate to go off-track with the $ invested under the car without some kind of portection. Ian

Date: 8-15-07 03:32
From: us4736 in danbury CT

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

i used a old AC fan and fabed up this oil pan
_________________
REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM

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Date: 8-15-07 04:35
From: Ian in Rochester, NY

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

Lee, I went out and measured my car for you to guestimate moving the S14 back in the engine compartment. There is about 3.5" between the head/plenum and the firewall. However, you might run into problems with the brake booster. I've removed mine, so I couldn't measure for you, but you might have interference with the rubber intake elbow. On the pan side, the M10 would probably hit the subframe as it is so deep for the length of the pan. However, you could modify an S14 pan, which is much shallower in the rear, and that would fit no problem with the engine scooted back an inch.

Ian
'76 M2

Date: 8-15-07 05:03 From: Ian in Rochester, NY Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Check your bar fit before worrying about the drop bar. I forgot to mention that I modified my motor mounts to lower my engine almost an inch. In the stock location the pan may clear the standard Ireland bar just fine. Ian '76 M2

Date: 8-15-07 08:14 From: Lee in Montreal Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Thanks Ian for taking the time to measure up the engine. I have a few spare 2002 motor mount brackets and will modify them ahead of time. Lee

Date: 8-15-07 08:37 From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Lee what will you do for oil pan/baffling/anti-oil starvation? _________________ 1990 325i 1976 2002

Date: 8-16-07 04:45
From: canadamatt in canada, eh?

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

I have never done a s14 swap so take that into account, but I was using a Honda throttle cable on my m20 swap, and it worked alright. I put in a stainless Lokar cable a while ago, much much better feel. It pulls smoother, can be shortened, and is easily adjustable. I got mine at Summit but tons of shops have them. With the Honda cable you are stuck with the length, and not much adjustability.

Matt

Date: 8-16-07 07:36 From: RED1602 in Sandy Utah Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
Thanks Matt, That's good to know, since according to Honda the 75 to 79 civic Throttle cable is no longer available. RED 1602 1970 1602 (Track) soon to get s14. 1974 2002Tii (Show) 1989 325ix (Daily) 1991 325ic (Summer) 2000 328i (Wife's)

Date: 8-17-07 11:47
From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

Anyone have a picture of how the stock S14 lower oil pan needs to be modified in order to clear the frame rail? I know one was posted on here not long ago but I cant seem to find it. There is now a wonderful horizontal baffle available that bolts in and completely encircles the pickup. I think I will be comfortable with this baffle, 1L overfill and a oil pressure gauge.
_________________
1990 325i
1976 2002

Date: 8-17-07 11:54
From: peteinjp in Toyama, Japan

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

Got this from TJW in hong kong. Its on the web page he has.

Are you talking about the baffle that John at s14power.com is making?

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Date: 8-18-07 07:44
From: Lee in Montreal

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

madjurgen wrote:

Lee what will you do for oil pan/baffling/anti-oil starvation?

I track my M3 regularly, even on 235.40.17 RA1s with no oils starvation problems. I have the usual extended pan baffles with the rubber flap from the stock baffle. I usually overfill by 1/2 quart. And that's it.

I will try to fit the stock M3 pan as I find it to be more sturdy than the flimsy 2002 stamped steel pan. It may requie some cutting and welding, but who cares? I have a few spare. I will maybe even extend the pan to the passenger side for more oil.

Date: 8-18-07 10:35
From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

peteinjp wrote:

Got this from TJW in hong kong. Its on the web page he has.

Are you talking about the baffle that John at s14power.com is making?

That's the exact picture I was looking for. Thanks.

Yes, thats the one I'm going to get.
_________________
1990 325i
1976 2002

Date: 9-5-07 01:27 From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions
For those of you using the 265 tranny, by what length does the M3 shifter linkage need to be shortened in order to line up with the hole in the '02 tunnel? Any pictures? _________________ 1990 325i 1976 2002

Date: 9-5-07 01:55
From: NickVyse in Provence, France

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

madjurgen wrote:

For those of you using the 265 tranny, by what length does the M3 shifter linkage need to be shortened in order to line up with the hole in the '02 tunnel? Any pictures?

no pictures I'm afraid, but from memory it's about an inch shorter.

Here's a modified m3 oil pan to fit an 02 - available in Germany for a rather significant 1140 euros:

_________________
1973 m2 Touring - RHD. Asleep dreaming of a new body
1967 1600-2 LHD. Daily use
1967 1600-2 LHD. Parts car
1972 2002Tii LHD. Resto project

Date: 9-21-07 06:26
From: madjurgen in Ft Worth TX

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

peteinjp wrote:

Got this from TJW in hong kong. Its on the web page he has.

Pete, do you have TJW's email address or a link to his website?
_________________
1990 325i
1976 2002

Date: 10-18-07 05:31
From: DivyeshM2002Evo

Subject: Re: Detailed S14 swap questions

NickVyse wrote:

madjurgen wrote:

For those of you using the 265 tranny, by what length does the M3 shifter linkage need to be shortened in order to line up with the hole in the '02 tunnel? Any pictures?

no pictures I'm afraid, but from memory it's about an inch shorter.

Here's a modified m3 oil pan to fit an 02 - available in Germany for a rather significant 1140 euros:

Hi Nick,
I'm at the point of preping the engine bay for the s14 engine and i've got the M10 oil pan fitted to the s14 engine. I'm not entirely happy with using the m10 sump pan and would like some further details about the German modified s14 oil pan for the 02 that you posted. Can you email me the contact details.

Also i'd like to know some more about the VACs oil pan too if anyone can offer some further information.

Thanks
Divyesh

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