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Date: 10-28-08 06:19
From: PatAllen in Quebec  
Subject: Cylinder head CC's volumes, pistons, block and CR  
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Edited to fig some numbers...
Edited to add this info: piston pin to deck height is not given, because only the dome is referenced as a measure to visualy identify the pistons.
I am gathering info on the M10 variants.
Here is the CC volume of each heads.
121/121ti head: 58cc, 1972 and earlier
e12 head: 61cc, 1973 to 1975
e21 2.0 head: 60cc, 2002 and 320i, 1976 to 1979
1.8i head: 63cc, 320i and 318i 1980 to 1984
Piston DATA:
Pistons used for 121/121ti head: named "bathtub"
flat tops: 8,5:1
1,5mm dome: 9:1
5,2mm dome (but with different deck height) 9,3:1 for Ti
4.4mm dome:(but with different deck height) 10:1, early euro tii mostly with plastic intake runners
Pistons used for e12 head: named "piano top" or "grand piano top"
3 kind of pianos:
1.5-2mm dome, 8,3:1cr, us spec, 72-74
4,5mm dome, 9:1cr (us Tii),
6,8mm dome, 9.5:1 cr (euro Tii)
flat tops on e12 head: 8,1:1, us spec 75 49 states
turbo: 6,9:1, 3,7mm dish
Pistons for e21 2.0 head:
flat tops: 8,3:1, used on 76 us spec 49 states
domed: 9,3:1, euro only, e21 only
pistons for 1.8 head: no data yet
all pictures are from my personnal piston collection. missing: euro tii with 9,5:1
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
Last edited by PatAllen on 11-4-08 07:14; edited 2 times in total
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Date: 10-29-08 02:34
From: Pancake in Beaverton, OR
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR
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From my research, the US 1.8 came with either 8.8:1 or 9.4:1 domes, depending on the year. Here is a pic of a 9.4:1 domed piston (stolen from http://www.kengineering.info/cylinder%20head.html)
As I've had it described, the difference is the dome size. Not sure on the Euro engines though.
Oh, and finally some combustion chamber info... you are now officially my hero _________________ Mike J.
“When you see the tree you’re about to hit, it’s called under steer. When you can only feel and hear it, it’s over steer.”
-Walter Rohrl
73 Sahara
73 Fjord
76 rat rod in progress (aka flat black and rust)
Last edited by Pancake on 10-29-08 03:48; edited 1 time in total
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Date: 10-30-08 05:55
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR
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| Pancake wrote: | From my research, the US 1.8 came with either 8.8:1 or 9.4:1 domes, depending on the year. Here is a pic of a 9.4:1 domed piston (stolen from http://www.kengineering.info/cylinder%20head.html)
As I've had it described, the difference is the dome size. Not sure on the Euro engines though.
Oh, and finally some combustion chamber info... you are now officially my hero |
this looks like it is for the e21 2.0 head.
i have a bunch of 1.8 pistons, i will update my list... _________________ 1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-2-08 04:08
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR
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Here is a 1.8 piston from a e21 1.8, 80-83 320-320i.
NOTE: this piston dont work on a 2002 crank/rod because the pin to deck distance is longer.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-2-08 04:14
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR
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Here is some pictures of some of my block into my collection.
Pictured:
1-e21 2.0 block
2-e21 1.8 block
3-74-76 block with screwed on plug behind the timing cover
4-Tii block, notice the oil return plug next to the oil filter boss
5-70-73 block, with aluminium plug behind the front cover
6-early block with screwed on oil pick-up tube, i believe pre 70
(sequence number not real)
The major difference in the webing is only external and apply only to the later 1.8 block. All others seems to have the exact same webbing/reinforcements, outside and inside.
Once flipped, they are all the same at first sight.
The boss for the oil filter seems to change without any consistency, some has depp passages while some others seems to be "flush".
If any of the info in this is wrong, please provide me the fact and i will be glad to modify it
NOTE, all years are from the VIN that is onto the block, averaged within 10 different block, so it is real.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
Last edited by PatAllen on 11-2-08 04:49; edited 3 times in total
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Date: 11-2-08 04:16
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt)
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(nt)
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-2-08 04:17
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt) (nt)
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(nt)
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-2-08 05:04
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt)
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in a more clever way...
Major differences circled in red.
Note: early block has no provision for the water passage that goes to the water choke, while the Tii one has a plug. All others has a nipple.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-2-08 05:14
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt)
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oil filter boss differences. No idea why/when it swtiches from one to one other.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-2-08 05:20
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt)
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internal comparo
note: only difference from under is the absence of drilled/taped holes for the transmission braket. Absent on all E21 block, 2.0 or 1.8
Internal webing/reinforcements are exactly the same all over inside.
One major difference is the #3 bearing cap, all e21 block dont have the braket to support the longer pick-up tube of the oil pump.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
Last edited by PatAllen on 11-3-08 06:34; edited 1 time in total
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Date: 11-2-08 05:34
From: JohnV in Egypt / Switzerland
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt) (nt)
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try using the mahle catalogue
http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA/app/queryEngine
after doing the search on "Manufacturer : BMW / Designation : M10 "
a list shows up . (2 pages , shows detailed info about the engine , cyl diameter Ø , Engine displacement , and output ) .. click on the icons for more information , first (from left) , gives you the same info shown + Compression ratio , the middle shows you the vehicles , and the right one shows you the product details .. click on the product details and you access the related info , (you can find the dome height , piston height , a sketch for it and related info)
good for checking the info and complete the missing about Pistons ;)
Thank you sir for your effort putting all that together ;)
(maybe we can make some reference guide with putting some part numbers for the pistons and such? ) _________________ 
No expectations , No disappointment
Greetings
John
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Date: 11-2-08 06:30
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt) (nt)
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Very nice find, i looked at it all. They dont list engines specific to usa, as an example, they dont list the 2002 with e12 head and flat tops.
All 2002 engines are listed as 100hp.
2002 ti 120 and Tii 130, as usual.
All tii are listed to have 10:1, while in usa everyone knows they were 9.5:1 with aluminium intake and 10:1 only for the plastic intake ones, which are euro sourced (round tailligts Tii to say the least).
In resumee, the info pertinent to the 2002 only from the link above:
2002 usa 72-74, 8.5:1 100hp (missing info/years, not aware of any 8.5:1, but rather 8,1 or 8,3 or 9 or 9,5)
2002 Ti, 9,3:1 120hp (correct info)
2002 Tii, 70-75, 10:1, 130hp (missing info)
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
Last edited by PatAllen on 11-3-08 06:31; edited 1 time in total
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Date: 11-3-08 04:51
From: JohnV in Egypt / Switzerland
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt) (nt)
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at least you can use their piston deck sketches and measurements ;)
example :
KH 42,5
ÜH 4,4
GL 84,9
KH : Kompressionshoehe = compression height
UH : Uberhoehung = dome height
GL : Gesamtlaenge = total height
here the english link :)
http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA/app/queryEngine?locale=en_________________
No expectations , No disappointment
Greetings
John
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Date: 11-3-08 06:29
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt) (nt)
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| JohnV wrote: | at least you can use their piston deck sketches and measurements ;)
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thanks, but these measurements are already into the faq.
plz try to not load that page with "no info" reply.
what we miss is hp for all m10 variant for 2002 2L. _________________ 1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-3-08 01:58
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head combustion chamber volumes, pistons and CR (nt) (nt)
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I found out the missing info.
Early engines were named "121", not M10 (???).
They are still, all rated at 100hp.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-3-08 06:38
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head CC's volumes, pistons, block and CR
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Crank shaft comparo.
top: 2002
bottom: e21 320i 1.8
the difference is obvious, and the weight difference is also significant.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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Date: 11-3-08 06:43
From: PatAllen in Quebec
Subject: Re: Cylinder head CC's volumes, pistons, block and CR
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The elusive oil pump braket that holds the end of the oil pick up tube,
note how sturdy it is: there is a reason, to minimise stress on the pump and tame all vibrations.
It is totaly transportable from a 2002 engine to a e21 engine.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up
1997 Pathfinder
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