If you don't plan on keeping the donar car forever, you should probably keep and trash that section that contained the cut out VIN plate.

Michael (just thinking)

Will always be your problem if you decide to sell the car.

the data plate is the legal essence of the airplane. Essentially, you can replace everything attached to the dataplate and the aircraft still retains the Type Certificate, etc.
I would not hesitate welding, or even JB Welding, numbers into a car... but then I have never resold a car.
I would certainly tell a prospective buyer about the small deceit.
You are only considering this to circumvent California's draconian and somewhat irrational smog laws, not to decieve someone.

year to avoid the smog issues, I'd seriously consider swapping the entire right side upper rail assembly from the earlier car into the later one, especially if the keeper needed to be painted and the donor was going to be scrapped anyway. If the rail with the stamped in vin is changed, you've got the two number plates (engine compartment and dash) that match it and the correct pink slip and plates that match the pink, you should be home free.

It's a fair amount of work, but the only more or less guaranteed way of never getting busted with a car with altered numbers......

(nt)

even if all you did was swap the VIN plate, steering column cover and filled in the stamped number on the bulkhead. If for some reason the car needs to be verified in the future, the DMV won't even know what to look for. I've had several vehicles verified at the DMV and each time it was some little old lady that didn't have a clue. I walked around pointing out the locations for her.

Dan

your insurance company, and it is recovered, it will be scrutinized by the police and they are not old ladies at the DMV. Also, say the ins. co. pays you off and takes possession of the car and sells it at auction, it will be scrutinized carefully too. Do you want to bet your future/home/family/freedom and future emplyoment with a criminal record over something so stupid as VIN alteration, DMV fraud and ins. fraud? You think a buyer in the future is going to be stupid too and not notice an alteration? A fine lot of BMW enthusiasts you are encouraging a criminal act of felonious proportions. Hit a pedestrian accidentaly and let the detectives pour over your car and see if they don't notice an alteration. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

a newspaper about the same incident . . .


The Biker

The news story

at one point I had four 2002's. three were rusting hulks pulled out of backyards and barns and one I had driven home to New York from a bmw garage I worked in SF. My California car met an untimely end with a gaurdrail. One day while pulling parts off one of the parts cars under a tree, the same idea occured to me... and I swapped plates, registration and inspection sticker... pulled the vin tag from the engine compartment and went for a spin. Two years later, I was pulled over in mid winter by a local sheriff, at the time I was driving my then 72 year old friend, a bebop trumpet player that played with bird and looked a little shady... the sheriff looked at the two of us, the car with moss growing on the trunk and a frisbee on the floor between my legs almost covering the hole in which salt, slush and snow was being sprayed into the interior and without a moments hesitation told me "that if I ever see you, this car or registration on the road again you will not see the light of day for some time" and let me continue on my way... Like most things, its not a problem till you get caught.

(nt)

If you keep the car for your own use forever, then you likely have no problem, though altering a vin tag is illegal in every state. If you sell the car and do not disclose the altered vin, then you have committed fraud. If you do disclose it, then you have opened yourself up to prosecution as noted for altering the vin.

money for my tii vin and paperwork. This guy is one of the better known restoration experts. Makes me wonder what his cars are really worth?

Very sketchy.

I recently purchased a 2002 that is registered as a '70, but is clearly a '75 or '76. I have not been able to locate any vin number on the car other than the VIN plate and steering column cover. Exactly where on the rail or bulkhead is the chassis number?

although I personally see nothing wrong with it, especially if swapping a like car, but if you sold it, you will have that "loose end" forever in your life, and who wants to look over your shoulder forever? Me, like to sleep well without fearing a small thing come back to haunt me.
This brings another subject: I think a great majority of 2002 75 and under are probably smog illegal in California, and there will a dreaded day when a cop will be handling fix it tickets to some of us.

I guess it's up to the individual as to whether it's "right or wrong"- I personally think in your case, it's perfectly alright.

BUT....what about insurance?? If it's a beater daily driver, you might not even have collision coverage on it, but if you get into an accident- and the insurance company (theirs or yours) somehow finds out that the VIN is not kosher, I imagine they would at best simply wash their hands of any responsibility- leaving you holding the $$$$$ bag, or at worst- push for some sort of insurance fraud prosecution.

Basically you would have insurance on the car based on it's VIN, if it was determined that the car did not belong to the VIN, then the insurance company could just claim that you have no insurance on that car!

Bret.

Did I say I condoned it or have done it? Jay? Take a toke from your stash box and relax. It would be very easy to "alter" a 2002's VINs so no one could ever tell what its true identity was, but that doesn't mean I'd run out and do it. The times that I had cars verified is after I'd restored them, which included removing the VIN plate and reattaching it after restoration (VIN plate unaltered).

Like they say, fortunately most criminals are dumb, which makes them easier to catch. If someone knew what they were doing and wanted to change VINs, it would get down to how well the guy sleeps at night since no one else would ever know about it.

Dan

the vin on the rail has been welded in. plate riveted on after repaint. and steering column cover replaced. title is clear. i will definately make it a note during resale. the car is so modified i dont think the next owner will care too much. here's the way i see it.. the M20 burns much cleaner than i could ever get an M10 (with my experience). and i might even throw in a hiflow cat:)

(nt)

i wont be one of the unlucky as ill have FI ;) and also, Ill sell both titles with the car when (if) I sell it and your absolutely righ, it would always be in the back of your head :(

it's not cheating anyone if you are telling them the whole truth. they can decide whether to take it, not take it, or report you to the police. im not talking about lying.

this hardly sounds fair when the offense is still questionable: "..The vehicles are sent to a state police impound where they are issued a replacement VIN and are auctioned off."

..hmm replacing a VIN. isnt that what they're 'trying' to prevent. wow

taking non tiis and making them such.

Where do you draw the line? If it is OK to swap 02 vin for 02 vin then what is stopping you from swapping 02 vin for tii or turbo vin? is that OK?

insurance application and the company would (not just could) rescind the policy and give you all your money back and you were never covered in the first place, leaving you liable still liable for the damages if your accident was your fault, and probably unable to insure the vehicle at all if the VIN was caught even if no claim was involved.

a new VIN on a car. My friend's Healey 3000 was stolen and recovered with the VIN plate missing after it was recovered (easy to identify as it still has his plates on it when recovered with his reg in the glovebox). The Cal DMV issued him a replacement VIN and registration with the new VIN. The replacement VIN is not a normal Healey VIN but is stamped on the car.

refering to you in particular, although your comment could be construed as supportive.

with a 6 cyl '65 Chevelle hardtop and builds an accurate clone of the extremely rare 1965 Z16 396 Chevelle Malibu SS, using a title, vin, and number plates from a legit Z16 that was destroyed by rust. Owner #1 sells it to owner #2 as a Z16 clone; owner #2 is also honest and sells it as a clone to owner #3 who trucks it across the country and sells it as a legit car.

Is the car for all intents and purposes a Z16 Malibu? Yes - it's functionally correct in all details, and a recreation of a car that's no longer in existance. Is it a "real" Z16? Nope.

to disclose everything and supply both? Maybe I don't get it.

i wouldnt do it so i could swindle someone into thinking it's a <'76. ..only to allow me to do an engine swap which, i might add, would decrease emissions insanely.. even w/out a cat.

btw, what happens when the idiots try to register the stolen VIN from the Healey? :)