Jim_75Sahara wrote:

I say if you want to bomb, bomb, bomb IRAN, then vote for McCain. But I will resent your vote since I have children that will become draft-fodder for our 3RD WAR in the region. I will not send my kids off to make the world safe for the GOP's corporate buddies. Those A-HOLES aren't sending their kids to get blown up for Haliburton, are they???? Why should my kids be any less safe from insane religious nutbars than the elite ruling class?

The USA has not had a military draft since 1974, so today's cannon-fodder is volunteer-fodder, not draft-fodder. The danger of a professional standing army is that it can be misused more so than conscripts, who might object to misuse. One very good reason that WWII didn't drag on forever is that the civilian-soldiers had one goal -- get the damn war over and go home.

Your worries in your quote are for something that doesn't exist.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0409a.asp

"Consider, for example, the immortal words of James Madison, who is commonly referred to as “the father of the Constitution”:

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.... [There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and ... degeneracy of manners and of morals.... No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

The second way to use a standing army to impose tyranny was the direct one — the use of troops to establish order and obedience among the citizenry. Ordinarily, if a government has no huge standing army at its disposal, many people will choose to violate immoral laws that always come with a tyrannical regime; that is, they engage in what is commonly known as “civil disobedience” — the disobedience to immoral laws. But as the Chinese people discovered at Tiananmen Square, when the government has a standing army to enforce its will, civil disobedience becomes much more problematic.

Consider again the words of Madison:

A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.

The idea is that governments use their armies to produce the enemies, then scare the people with cries that the barbarians are at the gates, and then claim that war is necessary to put down the barbarians. With all this, needless to say, comes increased governmental power over the people.

Sound familiar? "

We are sorely overstretched militarily, so a 3rd war would tempt some to reintroduce the draft. Using enough scare tactics and false patriotism, the powerful few would attempt to bully us into a draft. Deferments would be offered to the fortunate sons, naturally. Our present volunteer army should be complaining at least as much as conscripts might. Why would a volunteer be in any less of a hurry to get the job done and get back home?? No logic there. And, I don't see where a conscript has more influence or more value than a volunteer. Madison was a smart guy, no arguments there. However, I am not in a trusting mood in regards to the president, congress, the Pentagon, or the TV news. I don't believe in the war in Iraq or the imminent war with Iran, no sir.
_________________
1975 Sahara 2002 ('Dieter')

A draft is a last ditch effort, after all our current military resources have been exhausted, which we are far from.

Any war with Iran will most likely be supported by a multi-national effort, as the EU, Isreal, and even other Arab nations have much to fear if Iran develops neuclear weapons. However, a war will only be preceded by Iran turning down all diplomatic solutions to the problem. the eu, the US and Iran have all said they want to solve this diplomatically. For all Iran's posturing, they know they can't compete with the EU and US military resources. Their government will be overthrown if we go to war, and that's the last thing they want.
_________________
-Brian L.

'91 Galant VR-4 #665/2000

the reason our military is overstretched, which is debateable, is due to W.Clinton and his defunding/downsizing of our military during his 8 years.
_________________
gwb72tii

Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910)

gwb72tii wrote:

the reason our military is overstretched, which is debateable, is due to W.Clinton and his defunding/downsizing of our military during his 8 years.

Of course it is. It's not like the Republicans have been in office for eight years or anything. Geez, only an idiot would think otherwise.
_________________
“...democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

-Winston Churchill

[the faqer formerly known as schnell540]

Jim_75Sahara wrote:

We are sorely overstretched militarily, so a 3rd war would tempt some to reintroduce the draft. Using enough scare tactics and false patriotism, the powerful few would attempt to bully us into a draft. Deferments would be offered to the fortunate sons, naturally. Our present volunteer army should be complaining at least as much as conscripts might. Why would a volunteer be in any less of a hurry to get the job done and get back home?? No logic there. And, I don't see where a conscript has more influence or more value than a volunteer. Madison was a smart guy, no arguments there. However, I am not in a trusting mood in regards to the president, congress, the Pentagon, or the TV news. I don't believe in the war in Iraq or the imminent war with Iran, no sir.

gotten around their draft notice in various legal ways. One did not have to be wealthy nor have any influence with anyone, at least regarding the Vietnam war draft, and probably any draft. I know many people including myself who legally avoided the military draft (I actually received three induction notices). I actually got rousted by the police while waiting in my Ford van (which was in Hot Rod magazine three months later), parked in front of the draft induction center at 5am while waiting for it to open so I would be officially exempted from the induction. My induction center had been bombed by someone the day before, and the cops thought the bombers would come and park right in front of the scene the next morning. Sure.

It wasn't easy to beat the draft, but if one did the work required it could be done. Most people who got a draft notice just gave up and went in. The smart ones started laying the groundwork for legal avoidance long before the moment they got their notice of the physical exam which was months before an induction notice arrived.

Remember that in WWII you were drafted for the duration of the war, not just for two or four years, so there was an incentive for the troops to fight like hell to get it over with so they could go home. The next draft should include women too IMHO.

I don't trust any goverment, the police or the military, and I'll never understand how today's anti-gun liberals (and I am a liberal) think that they are safe with the goverment, police and miltary armed when they aren't. The left needs to be armed for the day the government, police, military and the right-wing go postal on us. Nothing drives conservatives crazier than when a liberal can out-shoot them.

We'd probably end up agreeing on a lot of things since you are a leftie. I'll buy the drinks & we will solve the world's problems together. I was too young for Viet Nam. I never registered for the draft (born in 1959) & was not required to do so. Theoretically, at least, I'd serve Uncle Sam in a medical capacity. (RN is my trade)
_________________
1975 Sahara 2002 ('Dieter')

gwb72tii wrote:

the reason our military is overstretched, which is debateable, is due to W.Clinton and his defunding/downsizing of our military during his 8 years.

Perhaps you are forgetting about Rumsfeld and his hand in downsizing the military.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld

"Rumsfeld was named Defense Secretary soon after President George W. Bush took office in 2001. He immediately announced a series of sweeping reviews intended to transform the U.S. military into a lighter force."

He also dissagreed with Gen. Shinseki about the number of troops needed to win the war in Iraq.

A blurb on Clinton

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/24/pentagon.budget/

JHG762002 wrote:

gwb72tii wrote: the reason our military is overstretched, which is debateable, is due to W.Clinton and his defunding/downsizing of our military during his 8 years. Perhaps you are forgetting about Rumsfeld and his hand in downsizing the military. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld "Rumsfeld was named Defense Secretary soon after President George W. Bush took office in 2001. He immediately announced a series of sweeping reviews intended to transform the U.S. military into a lighter force." He also dissagreed with Gen. Shinseki about the number of troops needed to win the war in Iraq. A blurb on Clinton http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/24/pentagon.budget/

Don't try to confuse lil Georgie with facts. He never lets them get in the way of blaming everything on the Democrats. But, it was precious that he pulled Clinton out of the bag for this one. Classic FOX talking points!
_________________
“...democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

-Winston Churchill

[the faqer formerly known as schnell540]