Armond wrote:

Please educate me on this but why change the definition? Let me make it clear that I am not against people who choose Alternative lifestyles and have co-workers and friends who are gay. Blunt is one of them. But why push this agenda to the general public? What is the purpose? How will I explain to my Children that Mr and Mr or Mrs and Mrs. dropped off some cookies? What's next....

i think its cute you have a pet name for when your life partner stops by to serve up the meatpole. "dropped off some cookies"
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[quote="MatthewCervi"]

Armond wrote:

Please educate me on this but why change the definition? Let me make it clear that I am not against people who choose Alternative lifestyles and have co-workers and friends who are gay. Blunt is one of them. But why push this agenda to the general public? What is the purpose? How will I explain to my Children that Mr and Mr or Mrs and Mrs. dropped off some cookies? What's next....

Because some of us believe it is not a "choice" and that those who are gay are denied benefits that are given to heterosexual couples. If gay marriage were legal and common, there would be no need to explain why it is Mr. and Mr. any more than there is a need to explain why a couple is Mr. and Mrs.



I thought domestic partners took care of that?
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i have no problem if 2 people of the same sex want to live together and take vows. give them the same rights as married heterosexuals but dont call it marriage. civil union or whatever. marriage is a joke and has become nothing more than reality tv material. it should be between a man and a woman and should be taken seriously in my opinion
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BLUNT wrote:

i have no problem if 2 people of the same sex want to live together and take vows. give them the same rights as married heterosexuals but dont call it marriage. civil union or whatever. marriage is a joke and has become nothing more than reality tv material. it should be between a man and a woman and should be taken seriously in my opinion

I agree.
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Armond wrote:

... But why push this agenda to the general public? ....

How is giving someone the right to do something that has nothing to do with you (or anyone else) pushing an agenda on the general public?
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[the faqer formerly known as schnell540]

someone explain to us ignorants...what's so sacred about a word...."marriage" for example...it's a word not the life 2 people may choose to spend together

what's the opposite of marriage...why isn't "forever" sacred

i'm telling you....as a whole, we're all guilty of the prejudices of our forefathers on the issue of gays
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Last edited by esty on 6-24-08 03:30; edited 1 time in total

Marry me, Biscuit3. Or at least drop me off some of your cookies.

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esty wrote:

Armond wrote: why push this agenda to the general public? What is the purpose? How will I explain to my Children that Mr and Mr or Mrs and Mrs. dropped off some cookies? What's next.... what's next?...that we as a society not be so judgmental and hypocritical.....tell the kids the same thing you'd tell them about any couple you ask "why push the agenda"....could that not be said about politicians, religious zealots and heterosexual couples? man/woman marriage is a man made rule...it's about time man had an open mind and all men have a say in what's what what's so wrong with each to his or her own?

so does it mean it's ok to mary my Sister or my mom or my dad etc.etc because I'm open minded?
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Volvo V70 Turbo,Wagon

Ad Deum Per Fidem Mores Culturam

Scott Sturdy and I were engaged last night. I couldn't resist, after he showed me his Big One Hangin' http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,50/page,viewtopic/t,306864/

Scott, just remember, I'm pitchin' and you're catchin'

Armond wrote:

so does it mean it's ok to mary my Sister or my mom or my dad etc.etc because I'm open minded?

I don't know. Do you want to?

Seriously, if two gays want to marry, how does that "devaluate" a straight couple's marriage? And about explaining, children are the most open-minded individuals around. What do they care?
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Y'all clearly need clear dose of the queer eye for the 02 guy. Indeed, ever since 2006, the BMW Fiver has been recognized as the numero uno gay mobile. Take that, bitches!

http://gaylife.about.com/od/gayproductreviews/tp/gaycars.htm

As for the Mini Cooper, it comes in at number five. Don't worry, Brad, I know you're taken, so I'm sticking with Scott. There's just something about a man in Leiderhosen . . .

As for me, I think I looked simply fab in my orange V@V outfit. Next year, we go for more of the rainbow look. Hey, Bill R., is that you looking at my arse? Bum looker!! Cheeky monster!!!

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"When two people are under the influence of the most violent, most insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions, they are required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition until death do them part." [G.B. Shaw]
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to how it will be viewed in the future. If the same-sex divorce rate (and there will be divorces) is substantially lower than for the traditional oppsex marriages it won't look good for tradition, will it?

I believe this trend will also prove to allow sibling/cousin marriages in the future. How can you deny a bro/bro sis/sis bro/sis marriage (especially the former two) as their won't be any natural children to throw the birth-defect fodder against the bro/bro sis/sis unions.

There's gonna be some fun times with contract law coming.

Freedom of choice is the issue and generally those of a conservative bent are for individual freedom and choice -- except for this issue and a whole pile of others. On the other hand, the left doesn't want the people to have the choice of being armed, among their many no-choice flaws. You can't have it a one-way street whether right or left.

f1reverb wrote:

bro/sis marriage

Well, when in Rome . . .

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/humor/random_scholar/roman-egypt-brother-sister-marriage-2008.w

But you still have to fight for your right to party, in Germania.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2007/03/08/incest/

And the post raises some interesting questions on the derivation of the phrase, "raising cain."

http://www.custance.org/old/time/6ch1.html

There you go, some food for thought - happy reading. As just desert for my web research, all I really want, is a good batch of cookies.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/naughty-cookies/these-christmas-cookies-have-been-bad-very-very-bad-328633.php


Last edited by Otis on 6-24-08 06:36; edited 1 time in total

Otis wrote:

f1reverb wrote: bro/sis marriage Well, when in Rome . . . http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/humor/random_scholar/roman-egypt-brother-sister-marriage-2008.w But you still have to fight for your right to party, in Germania. http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2007/03/08/incest/

but it's the USA that I'm talking about.

Frankly, I'm more interested in manimony anyway. Why shouldn't women, who initiate 70% of divorces in the USA, and are the major provider in 1/3 of marriages, pay their fair share of alimony in divorces. According to statistics women only pay alimony in 4% of divorces. A woman needs to maintain her lifestyle, but a man is a lazy bum in court. What's fair is fair.

f1reverb wrote:

but it's the USA that I'm talking about.

But this is a German car site, and . . . oh, never mind. Scott, come to Papa . . . Daddy has some cookies for you.


PS - Just so that you know, you won't have me to kick around any more. I'm moving to South Africa, and marrying my E30. Freedom of choice, you know. Besides, it has a cute ass.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/is-your-car-gay-221551.php


Last edited by Otis on 6-24-08 06:47; edited 1 time in total

Armond wrote:

so does it mean it's ok to mary my Sister or my mom or my dad etc.etc because I'm open minded?

get real armond...a statement like that goes to show the higher intellect gays have over many of us heteros....how many incestuous relationships do you suppose the gay population supports?

your pose wasn't about incest was it?
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esty wrote:

the higher intellect gays have over many of us heteros

"Let She Who Lives by a Duck Pond, Cast the First Stone" . . . Anon

(Sorry, Esty, just couldn't resist the poor attempt at an inside joke :-))

f1reverb wrote:

The divorce rate of same-sex marriages will be the key to how it will be viewed in the future. If the same-sex divorce rate (and there will be divorces) is substantially lower than for the traditional oppsex marriages it won't look good for tradition, will it?

with divorce being as prevalent as marriage...all your theory would show is that gays have as much entitlement to marriage as the "traditional" couple...

i don't see how that would validate anyone's opinion, belief or otherwise...it would just put gay marriage on the same plane as hetero marriage...also as divorce rates are closely tied to the age of the participants which goes to maturity, not sexual orientation....
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marriage yet, and until there are you can't apply oppsex statistics to same-sex marriages, let alone divorces. Like I said, same-sex marriage might put oppsex marriage divorce rates to shame. There are no statistics yet for same-sex marriage or divorce, so sexual orientation regarding marriage/divorce statistics are things to come as are age-related statistics for same-sex marriage and divorce.

Otis, I don't think your E30 would qualify as Party 2 as I don't believe an automobile can legally be a party to a contract yet (after all, South Africa has their own indigenous RHD E30s and they take precedence over sexually deviant LHD Bimmers), but then you lawyers will figure out how to do it. I did propose to my '02 many years back but all it did was backfire in reply.

f1reverb wrote:

marriage yet, and until there are you can't apply oppsex statistics to same-sex marriages, let alone divorces. Like I said, same-sex marriage might put oppsex marriage divorce rates to shame. There are no statistics yet for same-sex marriage or divorce, so sexual orientation regarding marriage/divorce statistics are things to come as are age-related statistics for same-sex marriage and divorce.

i'm still lost in your analogy...are you of the opinion that a hi divorce rate would change the opinion of a non believers about the right or wrong of gay marriage....look at the stats for hetero divorce rates...based on the high rates, they shouldn't be allowed to marry.....

is that the idea....that a hi rate of divorce would validate the reason to forbid gay marriage?

am i close?

personally...i'm not a religious person...god has never been proven......i blame the gay stigma on the church ...if the catholic church, that believes once married, always married has the means to "work around" their rules on divorce, they could, if they wanted, work around the gay issue as well.....people would rather carry the cross than burn it
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inkatouring wrote:

Armond wrote: ... But why push this agenda to the general public? .... How is giving someone the right to do something that has nothing to do with you (or anyone else) pushing an agenda on the general public?

that is because 61 percent of voters in California 2000 elections defined marriage as between a man and a woman. I thought you guys are all about what the public wants? Flip floping again are we?
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Volvo V70 Turbo,Wagon

Ad Deum Per Fidem Mores Culturam

esty wrote:

Armond wrote: so does it mean it's ok to mary my Sister or my mom or my dad etc.etc because I'm open minded? get real armond...a statement like that goes to show the higher intellect gays have over many of us heteros....how many incestuous relationships do you suppose the gay population supports? your pose wasn't about incest was it?

I am getting real. Let's lower the standard or meaning of Marriage even further...why not? If the Son loves his Dad, who's to say they can marry? If a Father wants 10 wives...then why not? it's all good. well not for me. I will be at the Ballot box when the vote comes and I will teach our Children to have an open mind about other peoples behavior but to make sure to go back to the teachings of the Bible...when in doubt. If people want to make their own truths..then so be it. People will be judged in the end. I suppose anyone can discount the meaning of marriage....not in my household.
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73 Tii. My Daily driver
Volvo V70 Turbo,Wagon

Ad Deum Per Fidem Mores Culturam

Armond wrote:

that is because 61 percent of voters in California 2000 elections defined marriage as between a man and a woman.

lol...what does that prove....californians are smarter than the rest of the world....

i was born and lived most of my life in Ca but i never felt like a popular vote dictated beliefs

and BTW....the majority of all voters in the US voted for bush & chaney too....look at where that got us...

a lame argument armond


say....if 61% of voters in an upcomming California election voted for no more pvt transportation ownership...no one could own or drive a car...would the 61% vote make that right as well?

lame..just lame
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Esty,

I am Catholic and I take my religion seriously. There are parishoners in our church who are Gay or otherwise. They are always welcome and never disrespected. The difference is they dont push their agenda. They dont pound their chest and say "Let's change the definition of marriage" They go about their lives. They respect the teachings of the Catholic faith. And we as Catholics can only Pray for them. It is not up to us to change then. Only God can. What they do at home is none of my business.
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73 Tii. My Daily driver
Volvo V70 Turbo,Wagon

Ad Deum Per Fidem Mores Culturam

say....if 61% of voters in an upcomming California election voted for no more pvt transportation ownership...no one could own or drive a car...would the 61% vote make that right as well?


If the Libs get their way and Global Warming....it's very possible.
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73 Tii. My Daily driver
Volvo V70 Turbo,Wagon

Ad Deum Per Fidem Mores Culturam

Armond wrote:

Esty, I am Catholic and I take my religion seriously. There are parishoners in our church who are Gay or otherwise. They are always welcome and never disrespected. The difference is they dont push their agenda. They dont pound their chest and say "Let's change the definition of marriage" They go about their lives. They respect the teachings of the Catholic faith. And we as Catholics can only Pray for them. It is not up to us to change then. Only God can. What they do at home is none of my business.

Armond, i don't really think that persons request to do what others already are allowed to is a good example of "pushing their agenda" If we go by the same example, then we should take away women's right to vote, separate black and asian kids from white kids in schools and i am sure there are a few more "traditional" things we can find in US history, slavery comes to mind.

As for the teaching of Catholic church, would you also teach your kids that the world revolves around the flat earth? Ok, so the church finally admitted that that was not true a few years. I guess a few hundred year too late. But i am glad that it only too the church 60 years to admit that there was Holocaust.

Most of gay couples are not looking for the church wedding, but to be recognized in the eyes of the state as other married couples. There are few things that come with that right.

steve k.
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Armond wrote:

Esty, I am Catholic and I take my religion seriously. There are parishoners in our church who are Gay or otherwise. The difference is they dont push their agenda. They dont pound their chest and say "Let's change the definition of marriage" They go about their lives.

then perhaps, my son, you could learn a valuable lesson from your gay brethren & sisters.....you could learn to turn the other cheek and not push you agenda or pound your chest proclaiming gay marriage is wrong because 61% of california voters agreed....

but you know armond..in order to learn, one must have an open mind....so...that could rule out my suggestion to you
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