i know it shouldnt be loose, but everyone i talked about (e36 forums mainly) told me they are all like that now.
I am sure i torqued all the bolts 3 times to make sure as i didnt planed to take this apart again, it is quite time consuming to do that on e E36.

If its not the hot spots on the flywheel what could cause such shudder ?
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

Before pulling the whole thing apart, check the alignment of the drive shaft which I assume is two piece with a centre bearing hanger. You may get lucky and find adjusting that will help.

Good luck. Enjoy the long weekend.
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73 CS Polaris
76 2002a Sahara

doug73cs wrote:

Before pulling the whole thing apart, check the alignment of the drive shaft which I assume is two piece with a centre bearing hanger. You may get lucky and find adjusting that will help. Good luck. Enjoy the long weekend.

I dont see what this could change with the clutch shudder as it makes it when the car is at rest when it is just about to take off...but yes i messed a lot with the driveshaft alignment and it is ok.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

Pat

Your shudder strikes me as a clutch that is not fully engaging or a clutch that is slipping slightly. This could be due to a weak pressure plate, a warped plate, flywheel or friction disk OR even a bad/glazed friction compound. I doubt the throwout bearing has anything to do with your problem unless it is sized wrong and actually preventing full engagement of the clutch.

I had a 5 series that had a clutch that grabbed and shuddered slightly even though it had all new sachs parts. Turned out the shock absorbing springs in the clutch disk were weak and one of them was broken. The fact that the dealer refunded my money was small consolation when I had to tear everything down and reuse the original disk. It showed very little signs of wear and was probably good for 150K of spirited driving.

I disagree with Bingbong's flywheel expertise. If yours shows sings of warping or irregular wear, all of that can contribute to less than smooth clutch operation - Just as a warped brake rotor may cause a pulsing brake pedal.

I can see from your picture that your car is equipped with a dual or twin mass flywheel. Instead of there being dampening springs around the center hub of the clutch disc, there is a load dampener system built into the center area of the flywheel. In your photo the dampener setup is situated behind the slotted ring between the 8 crank bolts and the clutch plate friction surface. These dampeners go bad and can cause chattering, shuddering and even knocking noises on take off.
You can quickly and easily check the flywheel dampener by hand. With the flywheel installed on the crankshaft, just grab the outer edges of the flywheel and try to rotate it back and forth like you would a steering wheel. If you can move the outer ring more than 1/8 inch in relation to the inner hub, it probably needs replacing. If it makes any type of noise while doing this it definitely needs replacing.
These flywheels are typically unservicable. There are no new dampener parts available and most machine shops will not even try to resurface one. By the time the clutch surface needs attention the dampening system is often worn out. Replacement of the flywheel or retrofitting an older type flywheel and clutch arrangment are your only two options.
Do a Google search of twin or dual mass flywheel for more info. about these setups.
_________________
Bret @ Glass from the Past
www.caferacingparts.com
971-207-2824

Hi. I think i am getting wrong.

I am experiencing two totaly different problems, that appeared after i changed the clutch kit.
I am well aware of the dual mass flywheel, it is on all e36 and up.

Problem #1: pedal shake. This occurs only when i slightly press on the pedal.

Problem #2: clutch shudder. It only occurs when the car is about to take off, just where the friction point of the clutch happen.

Problem #1 and 2 may be related, but are not happening at the same time or in totaly different situations.

When the clutch shudder i can hear the drivetrain shaking real mad, it is realy something wrong with hot spots on the flywheel or an improper release bearing.
The essence of my question in my first post is, since i did drive with the car at least 1000km, if the flywheel is the problem (hot spots), will it cure the problem.

The fact that i have a dual mass flywheel or that it may be defect dont explain why, before changing the clutch it was smooth as butter.

Problem # feels to me that the presure plate has a bend finger or an improper diaphragm, and expose later with the shudder.

I hope it clears the situation, i would like to have thought/experiences with flywheel surfaced for this matter and results.

thanks.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

As mentioned before, clutch "judder" or "shudder" could be caused by any of the following:

loose/broken engine mounts or tranny mounts? worn friction surfaces or friction surfaces that are contaminated with oil/grease? worn splines on the driven shaft hub or the transmission output shaft? worn pilot bearing in crankshaft?

IF the throwout bearing is the wrong size, common sense dictates that it might prevent complete disengagement of the clutch disk. Likewise, if your pressure plate/diaphragm has a goobered spring, finger or whatever you care to call them, it is going to affect the smooth engagement of the clutch. Since your throwout bearing rides on these "fingers" if one or more is worn of not even - you will feel resistance through the pedal. This is not unlike a warped or out of balance brake rotor translating its imbalance or unevenness through the steering wheel as a "shimmy."

Sorry, my monitor is not particularly good. But if you have burn marks on your flywheel, you would be best to resurface it. Same with the friction disk. YOu probably wouldn't use a blued and warped brake rotor either!

One last thing, I am not familiar with the graphite/plastic throwout bearing you describe. The only time I think I dealt with Beetle, Dune Buggy or early Porsche. I have had throwout bearings on Mercedes, Corvettes etc seize or loose lubrication to the point where putting one's foot on the clutch results in a grind and or a squeal and uneven engagement of the clutch. Unfortunately, a bad throwout bearing has a bad habit of spreading to the pressure plate and also results in shortcuts in shifting .

Good luck.

Ernie wrote:

As mentioned before, clutch "judder" or "shudder" could be caused by any of the following: loose/broken engine mounts or tranny mounts? worn friction surfaces or friction surfaces that are contaminated with oil/grease? worn splines on the driven shaft hub or the transmission output shaft? worn pilot bearing in crankshaft? IF the throwout bearing is the wrong size, common sense dictates that it might prevent complete disengagement of the clutch disk. Likewise, if your pressure plate/diaphragm has a goobered spring, finger or whatever you care to call them, it is going to affect the smooth engagement of the clutch. Since your throwout bearing rides on these "fingers" if one or more is worn of not even - you will feel resistance through the pedal. This is not unlike a warped or out of balance brake rotor translating its imbalance or unevenness through the steering wheel as a "shimmy." Sorry, my monitor is not particularly good. But if you have burn marks on your flywheel, you would be best to resurface it. Same with the friction disk. YOu probably wouldn't use a blued and warped brake rotor either! One last thing, I am not familiar with the graphite/plastic throwout bearing you describe. The only time I think I dealt with Beetle, Dune Buggy or early Porsche. I have had throwout bearings on Mercedes, Corvettes etc seize or loose lubrication to the point where putting one's foot on the clutch results in a grind and or a squeal and uneven engagement of the clutch. Unfortunately, a bad throwout bearing has a bad habit of spreading to the pressure plate and also results in shortcuts in shifting . Good luck.

Thanks for the suggestions...

plz bear in mind that everything was totaly in perfect shape until i decided to change a noisy throw out bearing.
Engine mounts, pilot bearing,...are in perfect shape, and that still dont explain the before/after isues. Its not like if i had the engine out, or had replaced tons of parts...
So i am focusing on the clutch pack, wrong presure plate combined with a rough flywheel, since everything else hasnt been touched.

The throw out bearing is possibly perfect. Nothing to do with its "lenght" as you suggested, just like if you dont realy understand what i mean, in that it would make it unable to release completely. The clutch fully release and way beyond the friction point. The wrong feeling occur at the friction point, or before that. When i say it feeled wrong when i installed i meant that it is just more loose on the slide tube, where one would normaly put lube to ensure proper operation.

I will surely take this all apart.

thanks.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up