had that happened on my 5 speed when i bought it...the nut was just loose, it my case it has nothing to do with the bolt lenght un the way it was installed...it wsa just loose.

I had to take the trany apart and have the bitch soldered up and machined properly, because it reached far enough to make it leak baaaad.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

wrong bolts ?

off-the-shelf hardware store bolts ?

try BMW official hardware
_________________
1976 BMW 2002 #2743711(sorry I sold it 12/25/06)
1986 BMW R65 650cc twin 19k miles
1964 BMW R27 250cc single 15K miles
2002 BMW 325xiTouring 29k miles
1984 MERCEDES-BENZ W123 300D Turbodiesel-188k miles fein-DIESEL

As mentioned, bolt length/looseness or possibly a slight bend on your trans' 3 hole output (although you'd have other problems from that since the driveline would not be straight/balanced).

Another cause is for the rubber guibo itself to be bent or get bent from some pressure/misalignment during the install. Maybe it's flexing backwards when running.

Keep us posted on this mystery.

i'm using "bmw" bolts so that can't be the problem...the dude that's helping said one nut/bolt was loose and perhaps that could be the culprit....this has only occurred since installing a new guibo a few months ago...before c hanging guibos there was no problem

one question...do the arrows on the guibo point to the front or to the rear of the car...or doesn't it matter?

thanks guys
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Portrait of a Deadbeat

Esty,
The way I understand, the arrows need to point to the flange ears it connects to. Or in other words the flange, whether off the trans output or driveshaft should have an arrow on the guibo point to it when installed. Or since the bolts are installed through the guibo with the nuts on the flange the arrows should point to the nuts. Make sense? Do not think there is a front or back. That is just me reading the instructions as I had the early four ear flange on my 5 speed and had the corresponding eight bolt guibo. For what it is worth I have never experienced the catastrophic failures I guess others have had with the standard 02 guibo since the swap in 1997.
Take a look at the pic again for nut orientation on the discussion below.
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,50/page,viewtopic/t,304915/



Earl

thanks earl...taking a 2nd look at things there's no way an excessively long bolt or larger bot head would reach the bottom of the trans case as the bolts enter the flanges and guibo at a substantial parallel distance from the bottom of the trans case...

i believe they put those arrows on the guibo to mess with your mind cause regardless of orientation there's always an arrow pointing at a hole, bolt and flange
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Portrait of a Deadbeat

2 ideas: Did you get the right guibo ? I ordered a 6 bolt guibo once from a vendor & told them it was for 5 speed 320i trans & they sent the wrong one, I think it was thicker or bigger diameter, I forget which. Also, that tranny mount looks shot to me, get one for a 5 series they are stronger & may have to drill the hole out on the cross brace a little.

DanOKC wrote:

2 ideas: Did you get the right guibo ? I ordered a 6 bolt guibo once from a vendor & told them it was for 5 speed 320i trans & they sent the wrong one, I think it was thicker or bigger diameter, I forget which. Also, that tranny mount looks shot to me, get one for a 5 series they are stronger & may have to drill the hole out on the cross brace a little.

hey dan...i ordered from Autohaus in AZ...they've never led me astray before....it looks the same as the old one so i assume it's correct...i ordered for the year and model
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Portrait of a Deadbeat

OK, just a thought, on the arrows on the guibo, the head of the bolt lines up with the "Head" of the arrow, not the tip, but I don't think that's the cause. If you bought it used, maybe there is a wrong part somewhere, output flange maybe not correct ? Also on the tranny support, if it gets squashed enough & lets the tranny sag, it would maybe put the guibo at an angle not "even" with the back of the tranny. If it rubs as it sits bolted up, should be easy to see why, I'd think the case damage would have been there when the old guibo got removed too.
Only other thing I can think of is the drive shaft preload (1/8 " about)is set way off somehow.
Make sure you have all 4 wheels off the ground & rotate it & see if it rubs worse on one side of the guibo, or if it's even all the way around.

DanOKC wrote:

, the head of the bolt lines up with the "Head" of the arrow, not the tip,

Looking at this from a simplistic point of view, the bolt goes through the guibo in the direction of the arrow.

At least that is what I gather from the illustration.

Doug - a simple mind
'73 tii Atlantik

Doug check out this site and the pictures...pelican parts

in this pic all the bolts are inserted in the same direction


but i understand what you're talking about...
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Portrait of a Deadbeat

The arrows tip points at the flange - if it's right on one side the other should also be correct. Doubt it solves the rubbing problem though.

esty wrote:

Doug check out this site and the pictures...pelican parts in this pic all the bolts are inserted in the same direction but i understand what you're talking about...

That picture is just wrong. Hard to believe they have it up on their site like that.

Doug

Esty,

Devo1's diagram is correct. This is the recommended installation. 3 should go one way and the other 3 should face the other direciton. However, I have seen it installed the way you show plenty of times and I even did it this way by mistake many years ago with no problems. But, I would try flipping the 3 nuts and bolts the other way to see if it will help with your clearance issues.

devo1 wrote:

The arrows tip points at the flange - if it's right on one side the other should also be correct. Doubt it solves the rubbing problem though.

I would be scared to use that method. Imagine if the bolt that goes the the trany side, get loose ? it will destroy the trany real fast before it falls off. It could even "lock" the flange.

I prefer the other one pictured with all the bolts on the same direction, if one get loose, the nut only may eat up the shifter seal, and will eventualy fall off without more damage.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

All the B.S. about bolts, way off the issue at hand. If it had been a bolt, she sure as hell would have heard it.

Take a look at the parts you removed. If the transmission has a wear mark, so does the piece that made contact. Look at the guibo first! Measure it's diameter, compare to an old one or somebody else measure one for reference. I think I have another new one, but it is at home in the parts box.

The guibo itself CANNOT reach the surround for the shifter seal, it is physicaly IMPOSSIBLE, even if the trasmission and engine are angled at 45 degrees altogether.
Its the head of the nut for sure, i would bet my own 02 on that.

Crawl under your 02 and take a good look. The nearest thing of the shifter seal is the bolts, not the weak rubber of the guibo (that couldnt eat metal like that, c'mon).
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1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

one last question then i'll let this rest...

what difference does it make which direction the nuts & bolts are oriented...is there a reason for the directional placement of the nuts & bolts?

referring to the pelican parts picture where all the bolts are entered back to front instead of alternately
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Portrait of a Deadbeat

esty wrote:

one last question then i'll let this rest... what difference does it make which direction the nuts & bolts are oriented...is there a reason for the directional placement of the nuts & bolts? referring to the pelican parts picture where all the bolts are entered back to front instead of alternately

I would say there is no reason to be that anal with this other than if you dont want the bolt to destroy the transmission if it ever get loose.
_________________
1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

PatAllen wrote:

there is no reason to be that anal

hi pat...so what's the purpose of the bolt orientation...why can't or shouldn't they all face the same direction...rather than anal, call me curious
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Portrait of a Deadbeat

esty wrote:

PatAllen wrote: there is no reason to be that anal hi pat...so what's the purpose of the bolt orientation...why can't or shouldn't they all face the same direction...rather than anal, call me curious

I said it !! i prefer them to be all oriented so the nut is at the transmission side just to avoid any problems if it get loose. That the only reson for me. You can put them any side you want, the end result is the same, ie, the assembly will not be stronger or wathever, same result.
i dont even care what pelican said or what picture CD can post, it all about preferances and prevention.
BUT if you want to be anal then reach a picture on realoem on copy what you see. !!
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1976 turbocharged 2002, 14psi, T3, 70%LSD, urethane bush, 36x15 intercooler, 63mm tby,SDS EM4F, 5sp overdrive. Bilsts. Tech edge wb02, datalogger, recaros.
1974 2002 auto (under resto)
1992 325i
1991 318is
1985 XR4TI, 22psi
1986 Toyota pick-up

Esty,
I would expect that it is for the same reason as the eight bolt guibo. When installing the nut/bolt combo the bolt goes thru the guibo with the threaded portion thru the flange and the tightening of the fastener takes place by turning the nut that rests on the flange thus avoiding a rotating preset on the rubber portion of the guibo. Anyway that is the procedure in the shop manual.
Earl

Emyers wrote:

Esty, I would expect that it is for the same reason as the eight bolt guibo. When installing the nut/bolt combo the bolt goes thru the guibo with the threaded portion thru the flange and the tightening of the fastener takes place by turning the nut that rests on the flange thus avoiding a rotating preset on the rubber portion of the guibo. Anyway that is the procedure in the shop manual. Earl

What Earl said - the bolt orientation is to prevent leaving a residual twisting stress load between the steel tube insert and the rubber of the guibo. We've all seen rubber come debonded from steel in motor mounts and other parts at some time or another. When you tighten the guibo bolts, hold the bolt head against the guibo's steel insert without letting it rotate, and turn the nut against the shaft flange.
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Jerry

[quote="PatAllen"]

esty wrote:

PatAllen wrote: there is no reason to be that anal hi pat...so what's the purpose of the bolt orientation...why can't or shouldn't they all face the same direction...rather than anal, call me curious

The idea of avoiding a problem with a loose fastener is a good one, but it is obviously not always feasible. For example a loose rod nut or bolt can ruin your whole day. The point is you have to make sure some fasteners do not come loose, period and don't plan for that eventuality.

Esty, the major reason why all the bolts and nuts should not be oriented the same is the rubber versus metal issue. First, I think this tends to be more critical of an issue respecting the fat round doughnut giubo and not the sharp edged fabric reinforced version in your picture. In any event, to tighten the fastener on side will ordinarily remain stationary, while you screw or bolt-in the other end. The point is to keep the nut or bolt resting on the rubber face stationary so that the rubber does not get unnecessarily tweaked. The end butting against the metal flange can handle the torquing. It stands to reason that if you tighten the nut or bolt resting on the flex rubber, you can damage the rubber and also get a false sense of having tightened the fastener.

HTH

Emyers wrote:

Esty, I would expect that it is for the same reason as the eight bolt guibo. When installing the nut/bolt combo the bolt goes thru the guibo with the threaded portion thru the flange and the tightening of the fastener takes place by turning the nut that rests on the flange thus avoiding a rotating preset on the rubber portion of the guibo. Anyway that is the procedure in the shop manual. Earl

E - what earl said.

when you tighten fasteners you should always tighten the nut, not the head of the bolt. The nut should rest on the flange so that you don't pre-load the flex disc when you tighten.

Some say that you should put the bolts in only one way so that if one comes loose you won't tear up your transmission - if you follow the manual properly (note that is says DO NOT reuse bolts) and torque bolts properly you won't have any problems.

It's a PITA to do it by the book - you need to bolt (finger tight) the flex disc to the driveshaft then install, but it's worth it.

As for the rubbing - two things come to mind. Did you take off the metal sleeve around the flex disc? Did the nut that came loose do the damage? Finally, if the bolts were installed backwards it can cause the rubber to be pre-loaded and flex funny - is it possible that the flex disc, while under load was rubbing because of improper install?
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BMW-Yachtsport
'07 Accord DD
'83 e21 - DD (work in progress)
2574356 - sleeping in need of restoration

tom....and the rest of you guys...a nut wasn't off....one was just not as tight as it should have been...the guibo i got didn't have the metal band around it like the one in my o2 did...the guibo doesn't appear to have any damage as would be expected if it was hitting the trans case...maybe that trans was like that when it was installed and i just never noticed it...

i believe the cause of the vibration is my center support bearing...it's good but when i set it down, i noticed the fastening tabs seem'd twisted which would have caused it to be at an angle when installed
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Portrait of a Deadbeat