ClayW wrote:

Might be difficult to remove/replace. Also, you'd need a U-joint at the front, too, which would probably forbid the use of a guibo, which you need. BMW designed it well. Probably best to stick with that design.

Good points! anything else? Not that these arent enough. Just a little worried about going through guibos with the "hopeful" ~280 whp from my turbo setup
_________________
75 2002 "Project Turb02"

95 Hellrot M3

95 332is *Sold

The center link is needed. Without it, I imagine that you'd be putting too much strees on the output bearing in the transmission. Hopefully some others will chime in here, but that's my 2 cents.
_________________
ClayW
1976 Fjord 2002 Sunroof

Project Blog

"Finish the thing, do it right the first time and drive the son of a bitch!"
-Gray Baskerville on hot rod advice

Would this cause trouble anywhere? = YES

WITHOUT THE SHOCK absorbing of the guibo, the
ability to flex at the center support, and small flexing
at the rear u-joint - you'll quickly tear up the trans, and diff,
and have shortened reliability. It also has to with front
and rear subframe movement, and maintaining some flexibility between the two units attached to the unibody, isolating
mechanical noises from the body, and protecting the driveline
components from load shocks.

But then again anything is possible..........
go SOLID

HERE are your 02 drive shafts and the
TORQUE CAPACITY OF THE SHAFTS IS 470 LB.FT. !
I'd say they'll cope with your turbo just fine.


_________________
1976 BMW 2002 #2743711(sorry I sold it 12/25/06)
1986 BMW R65 650cc twin 19k miles
1964 BMW R27 250cc single 15K miles
2002 BMW 325xiTouring 29k miles
1984 MERCEDES-BENZ W123 300D Turbodiesel-188k miles fein-DIESEL

From all these responses it looks like a no go as I dont want to go "SOLID everywhere. Im young (26) and like having a nice back :)

Thanks for all the responses!
_________________
75 2002 "Project Turb02"

95 Hellrot M3

95 332is *Sold

If you switch to a 6-bolt guibo (as most people do when they add 5-speeds), then you shouldn't have a problem. I think the newer 6-bolt design has some kind of fabric reinforcement.
My friend hasn't had any problems with guibos on his E30 turbo monster thats making somewhere over 300whp (hasn't dyno'd it since switching to T04E ball bearing turbo).
_________________
1974 2002, 4224479, #74 EP/FSP, daily driver, track toy
1983 Yamaha RX50: 7hp/70+ MPG, in town run-about
1992 Miata: #43 CSP, winter beater

Just spend 15 minues to make sure your driveshaft alignment is close.

Then the guibo won't cause any problems...

t
_________________
I have a car disease. There is no cure.
I'm not even managing the symptoms very well...

If you do a u joint at both the front and the back along with a slip yoke slider, you shouldn't have a problem. With a slip yoke you don't even have to be very close on the length. Should cost you around $325 to have it made up. I can't attest to the tearing up the tranny issue other than to say Jensen Healeys used the same tranny with a driveshaft similar to what I just described. They were a heavier car and had less tranny issues than the 2002. I have been using the same driveshaft guy for about 20 years. He has built driveshafts for just about every race car around here. He looked at it and said no problem. He builds one piece driveshafts for applications like the 2002 all the time. He showed me one for some kind of minivan he had just completed. I think it was a Honda. Came with a two piece that you would swear was from our car. He said he has wade at least 2 dozen for that one application alone. I plan on building one as soon as my budget allows. Still lots of other things begging for my money rifght now. My main reason for building ne is that I have two trannies for the race car. There is a CR5 speed from a 320i in there now with a 8 bolt flange, and I have a OD 5 speed as a back up that has the same output flange. They are ever so slightly different in length. With a slip yoke driveshaft, that won't be a problem. No offense to the people who have replied before, but none of them have any experience in this matter. I'll admit I've never had one in a 2002, but I've had them in a ton of other cars. And as to the statement that BMW had these things figured out pretty well, I have a serious problem with that statement. I've spent the last 20 years restoring older cars and building race cars. Don't confuse the BMW from the 70's with the engineering marvels they are today. The 2002 is what it is- an under engineered slightly better than economy car.

call a competent drive shaft shop and tell them the length of the shaft , the maximum rpm the shaft would turn , then ask what diameter the one piece shaft would need to be function properly. then , if you decide to move on with the project, you can figure out where to put your shift mech. , your rear subframe, exhaust system, etc. because they will be in the same space now being filled with a HUGE driveshaft. oh, you also need to figure out how to adapt the HUGE shaft down to bmws tiny ,but durable, u joints. let me know how that works out for you. Doable? yes. A good idea? not so much.

call a competent drive shaft shop and tell them the length of the shaft , the maximum rpm the shaft would turn , then ask what diameter the one piece shaft would need to be function properly. then , if you decide to move on with the project, you can figure out where to put your shift mech. , your rear subframe, exhaust system, etc. because they will be in the same space now being filled with a HUGE driveshaft. oh, you also need to figure out how to adapt the HUGE shaft down to bmws tiny ,but durable, u joints. let me know how that works out for you. Doable? yes. A good idea? not so much.

ToddK wrote:

If you do a u joint at both the front and the back along with a slip yoke slider, you shouldn't have a problem. I have been using the same driveshaft guy for about 20 years. He has built driveshafts for just about every race car around here. He looked at it and said no problem. He builds one piece driveshafts for applications like the 2002 all the time. My main reason for building ne is that I have two trannies for the race car. There is a CR5 speed from a 320i in there now with a 8 bolt flange, and I have a OD 5 speed as a back up that has the same output flange. They are ever so slightly different in length. With a slip yoke driveshaft, that won't be a problem. No offense to the people who have replied before, but none of them have any experience in this matter. I'll admit I've never had one in a 2002, but I've had them in a ton of other cars. And as to the statement that BMW had these things figured out pretty well, I have a serious problem with that statement. I've spent the last 20 years restoring older cars and building race cars. .

I actually had this conversation with the Chief Engineer and President of our company today. I work for Taylor Race Engineering in Plano Texas. We build Race Car drivelines. We design & manufacture racing transmissions, driveshaft's, differentials and axles for everything from Formula SAE cars to Formula-1. Our employees and customers have won hundreds of Championships worldwide. We are also the US Motorsports Distributor for Quaife and a Major Distributor for Hewland, Webster and Tilton.

There are many parameters that affect the decision on whether to go with 1 or 2 pc. driveshaft's, i.e., hp, torque, rpm and weight. All of which affect rotating mass and the moment of inertia which can create an adverse harmonic situation. However, since 1975 we have never, ever built a driveshaft over 20" long. A one-piece unit in a 2002 would be closer to 40"long. With all due respect, your driveshaft guy is mis-informed. You will have a catastrophic failure and it wont be pretty. If you still insist on the 1 pc unit, please weld-in some containment hoops to keep the driveshaft out of your lap. We recently had a customer destroy a $16,000 Quaife Sequential transmission, did almost $10,000 of damage to his car and almost gave himself a vasectomy because he decided (on his own) to ignore our recommendations and installed a lightweight driveshaft and CV joints. It's really a safety issue.

The slip yoke idea sounds like a good idea and will solve your 2-transmissions issue. It should be an easy swap to an 1100 or 1300 Series unit on the front driveshaft and should be a lot stronger (and easier to deal with) than a Guibo. Also if you want to upgrade to a dogbox or other racing transmission later on, you can probably retain your driveshaft.

Good Luck!

punchesdfw wrote:

ToddK wrote: If you do a u joint at both the front and the back along with a slip yoke slider, you shouldn't have a problem. I have been using the same driveshaft guy for about 20 years. He has built driveshafts for just about every race car around here. He looked at it and said no problem. He builds one piece driveshafts for applications like the 2002 all the time. My main reason for building ne is that I have two trannies for the race car. There is a CR5 speed from a 320i in there now with a 8 bolt flange, and I have a OD 5 speed as a back up that has the same output flange. They are ever so slightly different in length. With a slip yoke driveshaft, that won't be a problem. No offense to the people who have replied before, but none of them have any experience in this matter. I'll admit I've never had one in a 2002, but I've had them in a ton of other cars. And as to the statement that BMW had these things figured out pretty well, I have a serious problem with that statement. I've spent the last 20 years restoring older cars and building race cars. . I actually had this conversation with the Chief Engineer and President of our company today. I work for Taylor Race Engineering in Plano Texas. We build Race Car drivelines. We design & manufacture racing transmissions, driveshaft's, differentials and axles for everything from Formula SAE cars to Formula-1. Our employees and customers have won hundreds of Championships worldwide. We are also the US Motorsports Distributor for Quaife and a Major Distributor for Hewland, Webster and Tilton. There are many parameters that affect the decision on whether to go with 1 or 2 pc. driveshaft's, i.e., hp, torque, rpm and weight. All of which affect rotating mass and the moment of inertia which can create an adverse harmonic situation. However, since 1975 we have never, ever built a driveshaft over 20" long. A one-piece unit in a 2002 would be closer to 40"long. With all due respect, your driveshaft guy is mis-informed. You will have a catastrophic failure and it wont be pretty. If you still insist on the 1 pc unit, please weld-in some containment hoops to keep the driveshaft out of your lap. We recently had a customer destroy a $16,000 Quaife Sequential transmission, did almost $10,000 of damage to his car and almost gave himself a vasectomy because he decided (on his own) to ignore our recommendations and installed a lightweight driveshaft and CV joints. It's really a safety issue. The slip yoke idea sounds like a good idea and will solve your 2-transmissions issue. It should be an easy swap to an 1100 or 1300 Series unit on the front driveshaft and should be a lot stronger (and easier to deal with) than a Guibo. Also if you want to upgrade to a dogbox or other racing transmission later on, you can probably retain your driveshaft. Good Luck!

Can you say "TaylorRaceEngineeringslipyokedriveshaftgroupbuy"?

I can!

peteinjp wrote:

Can you say "TaylorRaceEngineeringslipyokedriveshaftgroupbuy"? I can!

Not as well as I can say "GetQuaifeToMakeSomeMoreE21UnitsGroupBuy" :)

canadamatt wrote:

peteinjp wrote: Can you say "TaylorRaceEngineeringslipyokedriveshaftgroupbuy"? I can! Not as well as I can say "GetQuaifeToMakeSomeMoreE21UnitsGroupBuy" :)

I have 2-NEW 2002/e21 units and 10 - E30 units on the shelf!

ToddK wrote:

Don't confuse the BMW from the 70's with the engineering marvels they are today. The 2002 is what it is- an under engineered slightly better than economy car.

well, i have a serious problem with this statement. "under engineered"? compared to what? a cortina mk1? vw bug? which '60's economy car is only 'slightly' less than a '02? its only contemporary that didn't have a pushrod engine was alfa romeo, and they had fixed rear suspension. the datsun 510 was a blatant rip-off, and they copied the staid merecedes sohc engine.

the problem here is that people want to take a '60's car and make it more than it can handle. in my opinion, anything after 200hp/s-14 is in the realm of diminishing returns. the car cannot handle it. but you must judge the car by its contemporaries, not current production.

2761377 wrote:

ToddK wrote: Don't confuse the BMW from the 70's with the engineering marvels they are today. The 2002 is what it is- an under engineered slightly better than economy car. well, i have a serious problem with this statement. "under engineered"? compared to what? a cortina mk1? vw bug? which '60's economy car is only 'slightly' less than a '02? its only contemporary that didn't have a pushrod engine was alfa romeo, and they had fixed rear suspension. the datsun 510 was a blatant rip-off, and they copied the staid merecedes sohc engine. the problem here is that people want to take a '60's car and make it more than it can handle. in my opinion, anything after 200hp/s-14 is in the realm of diminishing returns. the car cannot handle it. but you must judge the car by its contemporaries, not current production.

I agree. Next to its contemporaries, the lowly 2002 was certainly ahead of its time. The overhead cam alone puts it in the upper echelon of "engineered" automobiles at that point. With wonderful braking and superb handling, it's no mystery why the 2002 launched BMW into the sport sedan niche that it commands today.
_________________
ClayW
1976 Fjord 2002 Sunroof

Project Blog

"Finish the thing, do it right the first time and drive the son of a bitch!"
-Gray Baskerville on hot rod advice