Super cool
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back to the 02s
http://my1972bmw.blogspot.com/
1600 1561547 project
http://1600bmw.blogspot.com/

vintage_bmw@yahoogroups.com

Mark,
Some questions on your diff.
It looks like a modified cover of a 4door 'Neue Klasse' diff. What did they do to modify the mounting area on the car body itself? It can"t be original 02 anymore. Do you have a clue why they added the metal bracket on the diff instead of the normal connection point? What is the distance from underside of your body to underside of diff with this setup?

And then another question. I am from Belgium, Europe. I know somebody who is into rallys. He squeezed 190 hp out of a standard 8 valve engine with an A4 system. He can beat everybody (Porsches, Opels,...) except the Escorts (DBA's). As such he wants to go one step further and get him a 2 liter Schnitzer enginge with carburation as they were used in the '70ies. Do you have any ideas where a complete 2 liter Schnitzer can be found in Europe at the moment?

Thanks for your help...
Tom

A good question really. Because their are substantial modifications under the car to accept the adjustable rear axle, that is the only place that the diff can be attached to the car. Since I received the car I haven't had the rear axle in it so I can't say what the distance is - I will look at it some time in the not too distant future.

Complete engines are very rare, although they do come up for sale from time to time. Two injected engines just sold within the last 6 months for about $25k US I believe. One needed re-building for sure and the other was (in my mind suspicious). As I have suggested before, you would be a fool to take one of these motors out and use it with out it being inspected (unless directly purchased or verified by a legit engine builder). Since the advent of Historic racing and as the Schnitzer motor was used in touring cars (BMW's) as well as F2 (and for that fact some Lola Gruppe 6 cars I beleive) they have become more and more scarce. Not that many (and associated spares) were made to begin with and fewer are left any more. I should think for a complete used motor your friend should be prepared to spend anywhere between $10-15,000 - more for something that is fresh. You could contact Heini Mader (Mader Racing) in Switzerland they might know. Beware they have little patience for people on "fishing trips" (aka not serious because they really don't have the dollars to pay out). Good luck.

Mark,
The $$ are not an issue. He has set 25000 EUR apart. But for that wants to acquire a complete motor and rebuild it while making it more robust so it lasts a few rallys...
When you get other leads, please do tell.
And by the way, I am interested in acquiring one of the 1600 Schnitzers. If you know where I can find one of those...
Thanks,
Tom

http://doddington-kent.org.uk/bussinesses_files/Historicparts/Engine.htm
_________________
Alex Contat
Seventies Classic Club Trophy
www.scct.fr

Merci Alain...
Tom

Thanks for the link but no good. The offer is from 2005. Engine is gone...
Too bad.
Tom

This one but 2L

http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/other/1176318529/1176318529pp.htm
_________________
Alex Contat
Seventies Classic Club Trophy
www.scct.fr

I know the fellow selling the bits on race-cars.com. It appears that most of everything is there to build a 2.0 motor either with carbs or injected. The Turbo bits are probably of little use unless you are going to try and build a Turbo and can find a 1.4 crank, new Rods etc., I would suggest that their is some machine work to do on the cam carrier and the head allegedly has a valve job etc., I don't think it would be too hard to build a non - canted carb motor with what he is offering. The only problem is that you are left over with a bunch of stuff you don't need/can't use. If your friend decides to try and purchase let me know...their are a few things he has that I wouldn't mind having myself.

Helo,

I ame the guy that is surching for a 2.0l 16v schnitzer engine on carbs.The handling of our rallycar is so good that it can handle more HP.We want to go a step further.Is it possible to get in contact for further info on the engine that you have seen and is on sale on racecars ?

thank you

Heikki
tegelsfeer@skynet.be

see also website www.tegelsfeer.be under historic racing

(nt)

Yes,i allready did.Do you know if everything from the engine is there ?What about the head.Is it a new head or a rebuild head,and is it still a good head?Are the collectors there for mounting the carburators ?
We will rebuild the engine anyway but everything must be present. I think that the alternator is on the original place with a carb engine.I also surch some good pictures from such an engine.

thank you for answering

Heikki

It appears to me that most of it is there. No pistons though. It looks like a later style head with the oil drain down on the outside of the head - I didn't see anywhere on the block where machining was done for the fittings and what not that attaches to that part. Regarding the head condition, impossible to say. I would ask him if he had done a valve job and what the condition is of the seats (tolerances from one to the next). This can be a huge expense (ask me I know) to R&R all the seats. I would try to find someone near you that has experience with these motors to help guide you along. Let me know if you end up purchasing it. Good Luck

Mark, my name is Sam and I have an original Group 5 BMW 2002. I bought the car just over a year ago from Laurens Manders in the Netherland. The car is absolutely incredible and my plans are to have it up and running at the Octoberfest this year. I bought the Schnitzer motor and parts that were for sale in California. I bought the car and a motor. The motor came from Austria and while complete, have some questionable parts. I bought the motor(s) and parts from California in hopes of building two good Schnitzer motors. By the way the car came with papers and history. Not to the level of detail I'd like, but with enough to validate it's authenticity.

The reason I emailing you is that I am looking for documentation on the motor(s). If you have any info I'd like get a hold of it. If you need info about my car please email me offline. Lots of tricks on this car (body air jacks, halon system, etc.). Later

I would be interested to hear what "historical" documents he provided you and what the history was. It is interesting because someone spent a lot of time and money to change a bunch of things around on that car ie., air jacks, the transmission tunnel, pedals, roll cage etc., etc., I don't think that I ever did see any detailed photo's of the steering assembly or rear suspension (those would be essential to see). I also thought it curious that the exhaust came out the back like a normal 2002 - the schnitzer cars always exited out the side near the passenger. oiriginally (air jacks for one).

As far as the Austrian engine goes, I recall a motor advertised on one of the English sites a while back, was an injected motor, the slide throttle, pan, valve cover and upper timing cover were all "silver" looking. The slide and the oil pan were for an F2 car (run straight up and down) and it had a funky looking lower timing cover (actually a standard 2002 lower timing cover painted black that they cobbled together - same motor? As far as the stuff you got from Rick out here in California - depending on what you paid you - never mind I can't say whether or not you got a good deal. You got a whole bunch of valuable parts for sure. A new Heidegger 3 stage dry sump pump would have to be north of $3k these days, the slide throttle, throttle butterflies, covers etc., lots of good stuff. The head appears to be used (for sure) but the cam carrier appears to be new. A bonus for you that it is new - however all the machining still has to be done on it to make it work (and not grenade your engine). If you haven't already found someone to help with our engine I would advise finding someone near by that at the least has Cosworth BDA/BDG experience, BMW M12/7 experience - there isn't anyone I really know that has Schnitzer experience here in this country. The closest probably being Marcus Glarner in Ontario Canada. Outside of that would be Heini Mader Racing in Switzerland. Keep us posted with your project - it sounds like fun.

Note I did not say a Schnitzer, I said a Group 5 2002. This car is not a Schnitzer! I think there was only three Schnitzer sponsored cars (Ertl, Krebs and I don't remember the third off the top of my head). Although painted in the Ertl Schnitzer colors, this car was originally a funky green and white. I have a Wagen Pass with from 1977 with the chasis number on it. It was register to a current GT-40 race car driver in Europe. I am attempting to contact him to get additional information about the car. He is still driving competively. I have traced it history to a couple of races in the 1977 and 1978. To date I can't find one where the car finished. I'll keep you posted on my findings. The car was converted to run oval track in the 1990's.

Do you have documentation on the engines from that era?

I don't know if we are talking about the same Austrian motor. This motor had a blue Schnitzer valve cover came with two blocks (one is a turbo block number 429 prefix). Had a slide throttle body injection in excellent condition. The front cover was gold, with a lot of paint missing. Was complete but the header was shot and I don't believe the pistons or the valve or correct, but I need documentation to validate my suspicions.

Funny, at one point I want to recall that Laurens was "suggesting" it was a "Schnitzer" Turbo 2oo2 - there were a lot of things that were different than what Schnitzer had done on thier cars (that isn't to say that at one point maybe it wasn't because people did all sorts of things with these cars - especially prior to them starting to escalate in value <along with all the classic racing cars>). At any rate it appeared to me that it had been very well put together and I am sure has a lot of valuable parts. I would like to see some other pics of the car if you have them.

Regarding the engine, the engine I saw is different than what you apparently have - it didn't have a "blue" valve cover. I should think that you would be able to make two engines from what you have....along with a couple of wheel barrows full of cash. Short of the crank and rods you have most of what you need to build a turbo motor as well. Its too bad that the long block that went with all the turbo stuff was sold separately - not sure to who but I would guess it is over seas now. Email me off line at amcclelland1@earthlink.net.

No disrespect to the list, but I don't want to clutter the list with a lot of pics, and info that every on isn't interested in. As the project progress I'll give everyone incremental updates.

I would not mind to see some pics of your engine.. and some more details.

Maikel

Here are some picture of the engine I bought from Austria. I suspect the piston are not correct. I now have that engine completely apart and repainted in the original Schnitzer colors. In order not to keep flooding the blog with a lot of pictures and personal info I will continue to give timely update on my progress and findings. I am in serious research mode now and looking for any and all documentation I can find about the different motors that came in the Schnitzer. Everything came with this engine. The only part was was in really bad shape is the header. It's in two pieces.

If you have some personal info or pictures you'd like to see, let me know and I will attempt to share them with the list. I went off line with Mark because the amount of info and pictures I've shared with him is entirely too much so send to this community. Again no dispect to the list, I am really trying to be courteous. If you think there more general info the community at large is looking for please don't hesitate to send an email to the list and I send pictures.

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My bad, I been assuming every one has seen the car Mark and I are talking about. Here are some pictures of my Group Five Car and 1974 2002 Turbo. As you can tell I don't like BMW's. (:>) Again, not to take up too much air time I will keep you posted as my research reveals the heritage/geneology of the car. Stay tune for upcoming update. Again no disrespect to the group at large but I don't want to dominant the list. Enjoy, Sam

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Mark how can we see your picturetrail album you gave us the link to in the first post?

It asks for a password.......

thank you....
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68' 1602
98' ///M3 Sedan

88' ///M3 Sold *
06' ///M3 Competition Pkg Sold *

http://www.bmw1602.com/

BMW2002T wrote:

My bad, I been assuming every one has seen the car Mark and I are talking about. Here are some pictures of my Group Five Car and 1974 2002 Turbo. As you can tell I don't like BMW's. (:>) Again, not to take up too much air time I will keep you posted as my research reveals the heritage/geneology of the car. Stay tune for upcoming update. Again no disrespect to the group at large but I don't want to dominant the list. Enjoy, Sam

Where in texas are you???
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Patrick Sloan


67 1600
90 325is
04 Audi A4