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Date: 7-21-08 01:56
From: COOP
Subject: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YOURS  
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This is not a joke...It is a serious proposal
Here's the basic premise:
I want to build a complex and gorgeous deck on the back of my house in the Oakland hills (Montclair) of California. The house is on a hill and this is not an easy project. I have a very specific vision of what I would like: Two-tiered, exquisitely designed and constructed, etc.
You are a high end builder/contractor in the SF Bay Area with impeccable references and qualifications...or you are just DAMN good and can prove it. No, you are NOT a shade-tree handyman who built a porch for your Aunt Beatrice back in '89.
You know and like my car...a lot: http://www.m2bmw.com/cooper.htm I have personally spent over $70K on my car over 16 years of ownership. It has been featured in The Roundel, European Car, Bimmer (cover car) and Retro Cars. The car has won many shows, including "2002 You Would Most Like to Own" at the year 2002 '02 Fest in San Luis Obisbo (thought by many to be the largest ever assembly of '02s). In addition to the modifications listed at the above link, the car has custom carbon fiber hood/deck lid finished to perfection (plus a complete spare set included), Wilwood rear disc conversion, and much more. The car is show quality, needs NOTHING and is freshly serviced by JP Cadoux at A-1 Imports Autoworks. Many people here know my car and might want to chime in about its quality. All that I can really say is that I had a vision 16 years ago of what I wanted this '02 to be...and now it is there 100%. This '02 is truly a work of art and provides incredible joy to look at to drive and to own. I have NEVER experienced a more entertaining back-road warrior and I've driven everything from a GT3 Porsche to a Challenge Stradale Ferrari to a supercharged Exige Lotus.
You build me the deck, and I hand you the keys to my car. No money changes hands...Not for materials, labor, permits or anything else. Everything is put into writing with a formal, mutually binding contract.
I have ZERO desire to sell the car, or even to part ways with it for that matter. This car has given me incredible joy and I have planned to keep it forever. However, I dream every day of being able to step from the back of my house onto a beautiful deck overlooking the Bay. The problem is that I don't do debt, I pay as I go...and I can't afford to pay for the deck I want now, nor do I have the patience to wait until I can afford it.
This idea came to me randomly quite awhile back and I intentionally waited several months to see if it would vanish from my mind. I see this proposal as a long shot that probably won't materialize, or maybe it will, who knows? But you know what? If it doesn't, I have no problem with gazing at my beautiful, Baltic Blau car from the peaceful repose of my rocking chair 50 years from now...
If you are the RIGHT man or woman for this job (or you know him/her) and this proposal intrigues you, please feel free to email me at coopspeed@hotmail.com.
COOP
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Date: 7-21-08 06:57
From: COOP
Subject: Re: What kind of bids have you received from contractors . . .
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| f1reverb wrote: | that are licensed, insured, carry workers compensation insurance, have the ability to eat the cost for soil/geological reports, let alone permits, and have the reputation and skill you want? Will you warranty the car for the same length of time that the contractor and insurance company have to warranty their work, which could be forever depending on the circumstances?
My best friend is exactly the type of contractor you want and has done some custom work in the Oakland hills. I read him your post and he just laughed and said to get bids, sell your car, take the money from the sale and pay the contractor that plus the difference that your car value is versus the real cost of doing high quality construction. |
I'm sorry, I must have been unclear in my post: The title was actually not "Worthless opinions of grumpy, senile, old farts desperately needed." I'm really not interested in peanut gallery negativity here F1, or whether you or your butt-buddy in a tool belt thought my proposal was outlandish or funny. If you are not the person that I'm reaching out to (and I'm well aware as well as indifferent that such a person might not exist), why bother opening your trap?!
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Date: 7-21-08 08:16
From: COOP
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| dubois wrote: | If you only want a deck for your car, then my car is only worth a door mat!
I suspect it will have to be the mother of all decks. It is interesting how we assign trade "value" to the things we enjoy. Not a bad concept! |
Touche my friend! Hope the trip to France was wonderful...
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Date: 7-21-08 09:44
From: penth2o in Northern Michigan  
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YOURS
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Coop, It can be done.
First off, I don't know if Cali has the laws and the regs that Mi. has.
We have protected dune areas that the State watches over and you can get a fine for pulling the sharp dune grass that cuts your feet... Even though you just need a walkway to the beach...
Keep your proposal out there as a fellow 02er will see it and jump on it.
With the cost of all the State B.S. and Federal mandates you may find someone to complete the project.
That is if your 02 is worth the fee's, fines, and penalties.
I have not researched your 02 but if you are willing to put that up as a fair trade, it must be worth something......
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Date: 7-21-08 10:20
From: penth2o in Northern Michigan
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YOURS
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nt
nt
I'll take some shots of it finished/handrailed/lighted and stained this weekend...
It can be done.
We did it in the middle of a brutal Michigan winter.......
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Date: 7-22-08 08:33
From: Otis
Subject: Re: Interesting transaction
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Coop, I sent you an email offline with a design idea; for whatever my suggestions are worth.
One note - and this is not meant to be a negative. From a tax standpoint, what you are suggesting (as you may already know) is a barter transaction. You might find contractors reluctant to accept a barter. That's because the contractor is taxable on the fair market value of what he (or she) receives in return for his (or her) services. Let's assume that your car is worth $50k (note, the rule is FMV, not the cost basis that you have in your car). The contractor must compute and pay estimated taxes and, ultimately, income taxes on that $50k FMV. At a 40 percent rate (combined fed and state), that computes to $20k in cash that the contractor must come up with, out of his or her pocket, to pay over to the tax authorities. Of course, the contractor won't have that cash from the deal - instead, the contractor will only have the car at the end of the transaction.
Now, it's a bit more complicated, I think, than the simple scenario above, since I assume you want the contractor to supply the materials (in other words, the car is in payment for labor and materials, not simply labor). In that case, the contractor would deduct against the FMV of the car, the materials cost (as a "cost of goods sold"). If the contractor spends (in my example) $50k for materials, then it's a pretty good deal - in fact, it results in an economic loss for the contractor, since he provided his labor for free. In that circumstance, the tax man might challenge the FMV that is assigned to the car, under the theory that nobody provides labor for free. But, assuming that you can provide a solid appraisal for the car, and the contractor keeps accurate records of the materials that he or she provides for the job, it could be doable, after all, there is nothing in the tax code(s) that prevents barter transactions; the only requirement is that the barter transaction be accurately valued and accounted for. Thus, you might find somebody to go for the deal. But, the potential complexities of valuing a car and perhaps paying cash tax on a non-liquid asset, just might scare off more than a few contractors.
Anyway, some food for thought. It's an interesting proposition, and I applaud your creativity in suggesting it. (Also, note that I used a relatively high FMV in my example. I didn't want to inadvertently insult you or your car, so I randomly selected something that to me, sounds high, based upon what we see on eBay. Obviously, the lower the FMV, the higher the probability that a contractor could either show a loss on the transaction, or at least show break-even, thus incurring no additional cash taxes. Indeed, it all depends on how the math works out, and on whether the Tax Man will accept the valuation.)
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Date: 7-22-08 06:44
From: Otis
Subject: Re: Interesting transaction
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| Colin wrote: | | Sometimes a man just wants a deck. |
True, but somehow, I don't think that's what COOP was referencing.
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Date: 8-1-08 09:16
From: robspeed in INDIANAHHH!!!! =D
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| COOP wrote: | This is not a joke...It is a serious proposal
Here's the basic premise:
I want to build a complex and gorgeous deck on the back of my house in the Oakland hills (Montclair) of California. The house is on a hill and this is not an easy project. I have a very specific vision of what I would like: Two-tiered, exquisitely designed and constructed, etc.
You are a high end builder/contractor in the SF Bay Area with impeccable references and qualifications...or you are just DAMN good and can prove it. No, you are NOT a shade-tree handyman who built a porch for your Aunt Beatrice back in '89.
You know and like my car...a lot: http://www.m2bmw.com/cooper.htm I have personally spent over $70K on my car over 16 years of ownership. It has been featured in The Roundel, European Car, Bimmer (cover car) and Retro Cars. The car has won many shows, including "2002 You Would Most Like to Own" at the year 2002 '02 Fest in San Luis Obisbo (thought by many to be the largest ever assembly of '02s). In addition to the modifications listed at the above link, the car has custom carbon fiber hood/deck lid finished to perfection (plus a complete spare set included), Wilwood rear disc conversion, and much more. The car is show quality, needs NOTHING and is freshly serviced by JP Cadoux at A-1 Imports Autoworks. Many people here know my car and might want to chime in about its quality. All that I can really say is that I had a vision 16 years ago of what I wanted this '02 to be...and now it is there 100%. This '02 is truly a work of art and provides incredible joy to look at to drive and to own. I have NEVER experienced a more entertaining back-road warrior and I've driven everything from a GT3 Porsche to a Challenge Stradale Ferrari to a supercharged Exige Lotus.
You build me the deck, and I hand you the keys to my car. No money changes hands...Not for materials, labor, permits or anything else. Everything is put into writing with a formal, mutually binding contract.
I have ZERO desire to sell the car, or even to part ways with it for that matter. This car has given me incredible joy and I have planned to keep it forever. However, I dream every day of being able to step from the back of my house onto a beautiful deck overlooking the Bay. The problem is that I don't do debt, I pay as I go...and I can't afford to pay for the deck I want now, nor do I have the patience to wait until I can afford it.
This idea came to me randomly quite awhile back and I intentionally waited several months to see if it would vanish from my mind. I see this proposal as a long shot that probably won't materialize, or maybe it will, who knows? But you know what? If it doesn't, I have no problem with gazing at my beautiful, Baltic Blau car from the peaceful repose of my rocking chair 50 years from now...
If you are the RIGHT man or woman for this job (or you know him/her) and this proposal intrigues you, please feel free to email me at coopspeed@hotmail.com.
COOP |
my brother could easily tackle this, however hes into lambos and ferarris (and vipers). what he might do is sell you a design for a deck, and you could sell the car for the cost of materials to build it. materials for truly interesting decks are way more $$ than you might think. He is used to budgets of $100-300K or more, although that is for complete landscaping jobs, not just decks.
http://www.apsgroup.net/
and
http://www.viptuningpro.com/_________________ - Rob S.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Date: 8-1-08 03:44
From: NickVyse in Provence, France
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| COOP wrote: |
I have ZERO desire to sell the car, or even to part ways with it for that matter. |
so save up for a deck!
Posts on the FAQ have rarely been more bizarre. _________________ 1973 m2 Touring - RHD. Asleep dreaming of a new body
1967 1600-2 LHD. Daily use
1967 1600-2 LHD. Parts car
1972 2002Tii LHD. Resto project
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Date: 8-1-08 10:01
From: COOP
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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[quote="NickVyse"] | COOP wrote: |
Posts on the FAQ have rarely been more bizarre. |
I'm flattered by the compliment...What is bizarre to one Limey is logical to one Yank.
IF (and I realize that it is beyond "needle in a haystack" likelihood), I found THE right person, I would: A) Have enjoyed and developed my car for 16 years, for FREE; B) Have made someone else very happy to inherit a very special car; C) Have obtained something (a deck) that I want very badly but won't be able to afford for about 5-7 years; D) Have instantly enhanced the value of my home by a significant margin.
True, I have NO desire to part ways with my wonderful car, and I'd cry like a baby even if the above scenario came together perfectly. But sometimes, life involves sacrifices, and that's what I was thinking...Get it? Probably not, but that's OK Nicky...
COOP
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Date: 8-2-08 01:25
From: NickVyse in Provence, France
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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[quote="COOP"] | NickVyse wrote: | | COOP wrote: |
Posts on the FAQ have rarely been more bizarre. |
I'm flattered by the compliment...What is bizarre to one Limey is logical to one Yank.
IF (and I realize that it is beyond "needle in a haystack" likelihood), I found THE right person, I would: A) Have enjoyed and developed my car for 16 years, for FREE; B) Have made someone else very happy to inherit a very special car; C) Have obtained something (a deck) that I want very badly but won't be able to afford for about 5-7 years; D) Have instantly enhanced the value of my home by a significant margin.
True, I have NO desire to part ways with my wonderful car, and I'd cry like a baby even if the above scenario came together perfectly. But sometimes, life involves sacrifices, and that's what I was thinking...Get it? Probably not, but that's OK Nicky...
COOP |
I get it Danielle, I just think it's a bizarre way of going about it, but each to his own. Still, if it works out you can get a piece of toughened glass and make a 6 speed coffee table. _________________ 1973 m2 Touring - RHD. Asleep dreaming of a new body
1967 1600-2 LHD. Daily use
1967 1600-2 LHD. Parts car
1972 2002Tii LHD. Resto project
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Date: 8-2-08 10:14
From: COOP
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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[quote="NickVyse"] | COOP wrote: | | NickVyse wrote: | | COOP wrote: |
Posts on the FAQ have rarely been more bizarre. |
I'm flattered by the compliment...What is bizarre to one Limey is logical to one Yank.
IF (and I realize that it is beyond "needle in a haystack" likelihood), I found THE right person, I would: A) Have enjoyed and developed my car for 16 years, for FREE; B) Have made someone else very happy to inherit a very special car; C) Have obtained something (a deck) that I want very badly but won't be able to afford for about 5-7 years; D) Have instantly enhanced the value of my home by a significant margin.
True, I have NO desire to part ways with my wonderful car, and I'd cry like a baby even if the above scenario came together perfectly. But sometimes, life involves sacrifices, and that's what I was thinking...Get it? Probably not, but that's OK Nicky...
COOP |
I get it Danielle, I just think it's a bizarre way of going about it, but each to his own. Still, if it works out you can get a piece of toughened glass and make a 6 speed coffee table. |
Well, Nichole...the world is certainly a better place, now that you've expressed what you think about it...
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Date: 8-2-08 01:32
From: COOP
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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[quote="NickVyse"] | COOP wrote: | | NickVyse wrote: | | COOP wrote: |
Posts on the FAQ have rarely been more bizarre. |
I'm flattered by the compliment...What is bizarre to one Limey is logical to one Yank.
IF (and I realize that it is beyond "needle in a haystack" likelihood), I found THE right person, I would: A) Have enjoyed and developed my car for 16 years, for FREE; B) Have made someone else very happy to inherit a very special car; C) Have obtained something (a deck) that I want very badly but won't be able to afford for about 5-7 years; D) Have instantly enhanced the value of my home by a significant margin.
True, I have NO desire to part ways with my wonderful car, and I'd cry like a baby even if the above scenario came together perfectly. But sometimes, life involves sacrifices, and that's what I was thinking...Get it? Probably not, but that's OK Nicky...
COOP |
I get it Danielle, I just think it's a bizarre way of going about it, but each to his own. Still, if it works out you can get a piece of toughened glass and make a 6 speed coffee table. |
Well, Nichole...the world is certainly a better place, now that you've expressed what you think about it...
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Date: 8-2-08 01:34
From: COOP
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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[quote="NickVyse"] | COOP wrote: | | NickVyse wrote: | | COOP wrote: |
Posts on the FAQ have rarely been more bizarre. |
I'm flattered by the compliment...What is bizarre to one Limey is logical to one Yank.
IF (and I realize that it is beyond "needle in a haystack" likelihood), I found THE right person, I would: A) Have enjoyed and developed my car for 16 years, for FREE; B) Have made someone else very happy to inherit a very special car; C) Have obtained something (a deck) that I want very badly but won't be able to afford for about 5-7 years; D) Have instantly enhanced the value of my home by a significant margin.
True, I have NO desire to part ways with my wonderful car, and I'd cry like a baby even if the above scenario came together perfectly. But sometimes, life involves sacrifices, and that's what I was thinking...Get it? Probably not, but that's OK Nicky...
COOP |
I get it Danielle, I just think it's a bizarre way of going about it, but each to his own. Still, if it works out you can get a piece of toughened glass and make a 6 speed coffee table. |
Well, Nichole...the world is certainly a better place, now that you've expressed what you think about it...
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Date: 8-2-08 07:13
From: instigator
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| COOP wrote: |
Well, Nichole...the world is certainly a better place, now that you've expressed what you think about it... |
And you always bring a little sunshine here -- by leaving!
Hahahahah!
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Date: 8-2-08 07:17
From: January_Feel
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| instigator wrote: | | COOP wrote: |
Well, Nichole...the world is certainly a better place, now that you've expressed what you think about it... |
And you always bring a little sunshine here -- by leaving!
Hahahahah! |
I for one hope COOP gets his deck so he can pollute deck-owner boards instead of the FAQ. :-p
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Date: 8-3-08 09:39
From: dubois in Hollister, (near SJ) California
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| NickVyse wrote: | | COOP wrote: |
I have ZERO desire to sell the car, or even to part ways with it for that matter. |
so save up for a deck!
Posts on the FAQ have rarely been more bizarre. |
It is ironic that you two are arguing, both M2 owners. If anyone could build a dream deck it would Nick, not that he is for hire, but I have seen his amazing work - better than pro.
It would be difficult to understand the advantages of trading a deck for a car, unless you are self employed contractor in the USA.
Owning a bodyshop, has exposed my to the world of trades. People are constantly offering me their services (including prostitution) for body work! One of the risk of trading is that in most instances, one side always feels that they got the short end of the stick - no pun intended. It only works when the value of the goods or services exchanged is determined in advance. One of the reasons I have never traded - seriously!.
On the other hand, trading a car for a deck, has advantages too, since the you can very easily double the value of your car (get a $100,000 deck for a $50,000 car)... I suspect it is done ALL the time!
The Alpina for 2 weeks for 5 years at Le Foulon, c'mon Nick let's do it! LOL! _________________ 72 tii A4, 72 tii Alpina, 98 M3 coupe
Don't argue with anyone that will not consider the possibility of being wrong...
the future is a dream, the present infinitesimally brief, but the memories are forever...
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Date: 8-3-08 09:57
From: NickVyse in Provence, France
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| dubois wrote: |
It is ironic that you two are arguing, both M2 owners. If anyone could build a dream deck it would Nick, not that he is for hire, but I have seen his amazing work - better than pro. |
You flatter me Michael - and I had help. Not sure if I could get away with my health and safety procedures in the States!
You have a good point though - and as well as getting a great deal a barter arrangement can also lead to one or even both parties feeling screwed. IMHO Coop should just sell to the highest bidder and then get the best man for the job, but that's not what this thread's about, and Coops not looking for opinions.
Give me the alpina outright and you can have the hotel for a year (2 weeks per winter spread over 26 years!)
Nick
ps - why are people too spineless to log in when having a dig at someone? _________________ 1973 m2 Touring - RHD. Asleep dreaming of a new body
1967 1600-2 LHD. Daily use
1967 1600-2 LHD. Parts car
1972 2002Tii LHD. Resto project
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Date: 8-3-08 11:53
From: dubois in Hollister, (near SJ) California
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| NickVyse wrote: | | dubois wrote: |
It is ironic that you two are arguing, both M2 owners. If anyone could build a dream deck it would Nick, not that he is for hire, but I have seen his amazing work - better than pro. |
Give me the alpina outright and you can have the hotel for a year (2 weeks per winter spread over 26 years!)
Nick
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Tempting! I'd better not mention it to Laura, she is already talking about next year's trip to F. Winter in Provence works for me. Outright yes, but you'd better not sell Le Foulon before I am 77! LOL _________________ 72 tii A4, 72 tii Alpina, 98 M3 coupe
Don't argue with anyone that will not consider the possibility of being wrong...
the future is a dream, the present infinitesimally brief, but the memories are forever...
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Date: 8-3-08 05:33
From: oz_tom in Melbourne - Australia
Subject: Re: REAL: Build me a deck & 1 of the world's best '02s is YO
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| dubois wrote: | | NickVyse wrote: | | dubois wrote: |
It is ironic that you two are arguing, both M2 owners. If anyone could build a dream deck it would Nick, not that he is for hire, but I have seen his amazing work - better than pro. |
Give me the alpina outright and you can have the hotel for a year (2 weeks per winter spread over 26 years!)
Nick
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Tempting! I'd better not mention it to Laura, she is already talking about next year's trip to F. Winter in Provence works for me. Outright yes, but you'd better not sell Le Foulon before I am 77! LOL |
+1! Dont sell it Nick. Im dying to make it over some time. Every time im watching Le Tour i think "next year". _________________ 
72tii - Whitey
74 - Blacky
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