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Thread Topic: BMW 1-2 at the Canadian GP! (nt) Threaded

   
Date: 6-8-08 11:39
From: f1reverb View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: BMW 1-2 at the Canadian GP! (nt)

(nt)



Date: 6-8-08 11:47
From: wickstad View user's profile
Subject: Re: BMW 1-2 at the Canadian GP! (nt)

Congrats to the team!



Date: 6-8-08 11:48
From: Kidasters in Houston, TX View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: BMW 1-2 at the Canadian GP! (nt)

Just watched the last 10 laps. Pretty cool!
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Date: 6-8-08 11:54
From: f1reverb View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Kubica leads the Driver's Championship and BMW . . .

is only three points behind Ferrari in the Constructor's. If Massa hadn't driven like a madman Ferrari would be second.



Date: 6-8-08 12:25
From: Colin in San Francisco View user's profile
Subject: Re: Kubica leads the Driver's Championship and BMW . . .

Fantastic race and a perfect run for BMW Sauber. I only wish I could have seen Alonso on the third step.
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Date: 6-8-08 12:27
From: f1reverb View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: The German anthem was played for the Constructor . . .

for the first time since Dan Gurney's F1 win in a Porsche (their first and only F1 win) way back in 1962, and I don't think they played anthems then anyway. BMW's engines have won F1 races with Williams, Brabham and Benneton, but never as the constructor, at least in the modern (since 1950) era.



Date: 6-8-08 12:52
From: Tommy View user's profile
Subject: Re: BMW 1-2 at the Canadian GP! (nt)

Woohoooooo! This years target is now reached. No pressure from now on. And it was great that Kubica won Heidfeld being second! IMO.
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Date: 6-8-08 01:04
From: f1reverb View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Kimi Karma got his comeuppance for doing the same to . . .

Sutil at Monaco, when Kimi rammed Sutil off from his well deserved fourth-place that he would have had.



Date: 6-8-08 02:25
From: steve k. in Redwood City, CA View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Kimi Karma got his comeuppance for doing the same to . .

f1reverb wrote:
Sutil at Monaco, when Kimi rammed Sutil off from his well deserved fourth-place that he would have had.


Sutil most likely would have been DQed for passing 3 cars under yellow. May be Kimi taking him out was the better thing since no one would have had to take his points away.

Great race for BMW, both drivers and the crew!!!!

steve k.

p.s. guy, please, no spoilers!!
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Date: 6-8-08 03:21
From: f1reverb View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Hamilton demoted 10 grid places for French GP . . .

along with Rosberg . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7443089.stm

Don't always believe the announcers, as Sutil would have been punished if he had infringed.



Date: 6-8-08 04:58
From: Colin in San Francisco View user's profile
Subject: Re: Hamilton demoted 10 grid places for French GP . . .

I think, if anything, one could compare Hamilton more to Schumacer than Hamilton's self comparison to Senna with Hamie's "what, me?" attitude. The kid acts like he is destined to win everything and when he does cock up (China and Brazil in 07 and now Canada this year) he always pulls out the "I don't know what happened" excuse.

"I don't know really what happened," Hamilton said.

"I was comfortably in the lead. It was looking like it was going to be an easy win. We came in. It wasn't a great stop.
Lewis Hamilton walks back to his pit after crashing in the pit lane
Hamilton looked on course for a win when he made his error

"I saw the guys in front of me, and all of sudden they'd stopped. I saw the red light but, by the time I saw it, it was too late to stop."

With all his bravado before the race, I just knew something was going to go wrong for him. You just can't be that cocky and expect to "blow everyone away." Maybe hanging out with models, moviestars, musicians and music producers is starting to distract him from piloting his multi-million dollar machine?

Ouch, why am I so bitter today?
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Date: 6-8-08 05:23
From: f1reverb View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Actually Colin, it was "Like Father Like Son" as daddy . . .

wasted a borrowed Porsche Carrera GT earlier in the week . . .

http://jalopnik.com/395069/f1-star-lewis-hamiltons-dad-crashes-porsche-carrera-gt-shows-hes-like-son






Date: 6-8-08 05:26
From: Colin in San Francisco View user's profile
Subject: Re: Actually Colin, it was "Like Father Like Son" as daddy . . .

f1reverb wrote:
wasted a borrowed Porsche Carrera GT earlier in the week . . .

http://jalopnik.com/395069/f1-star-lewis-hamiltons-dad-crashes-porsche-carrera-gt-shows-hes-like-son



Great photo. I read the story earlier this week but never got to see any shots of it. At least daddy was trying to impress the kids on the playground. Ouch.
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Date: 6-8-08 06:54
From: wickstad View user's profile
Subject: Re: Actually Colin, it was "Like Father Like Son" as daddy .

The results are great for the "home team" but after thinking about it a little bit I kind of wish the Ferrari, BMW, and McClaren would've been stacked up at pit exit waiting for the green light in the order they were in. (Instead of Kimi being shunted by Hamilton).

That would've been a tremendous battle on the track.

Hey F1R. What would the protocol have been for Kubica and Kimi?

Was Kimi there first so he gets to go first?

BMW=Awesome pit work.



On another note. Did Fox sports put a muzzle on David Hobbes? Or is he looking forward to LeMans? He seemed off.

And what about that brake dust! OMG! ;)



Date: 6-8-08 10:34
From: _z_ in Langlois, Oregon View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Actually Colin, it was "Like Father Like Son" as daddy .

wickstad wrote:
The results are great for the "home team" but after thinking about it a little bit I kind of wish the Ferrari, BMW, and McClaren would've been stacked up at pit exit waiting for the green light in the order they were in. (Instead of Kimi being shunted by Hamilton).

That would've been a tremendous battle on the track.

Hey F1R. What would the protocol have been for Kubica and Kimi?

Was Kimi there first so he gets to go first?

BMW=Awesome pit work.



On another note. Did Fox sports put a muzzle on David Hobbes? Or is he looking forward to LeMans? He seemed off.

And what about that brake dust! OMG! ;)



Sheesh I hate it when they switch to fox. At least they didn't bring in another crew.

But crap I get up this morning and get my coffee... i'm thinking cool. Formula 1 at a reasonable time .. get ready to sit back and have a leisurely start to a sunday .. I'm making toast etc

and BAM!

the freaking race started like 2 mins after the f1 show came on!!!!

I don't even remember seeing the warm up lap. They just ran down the names and the places and started the race.. usually its like almost an hour of interviews and hype, the girls in the pit lane, mechanics hustling tires out in warm up blankets etc... WTF!!

I had to reverse on my PVR to see the start .. kinda shocked me awake. I did want to see Kimi and Lewis fight it out on the track and not the pit lane but congrats to bmw and Kubica

-z



Date: 6-9-08 12:21
From: f1reverb View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: I wondered about that myself . . .

wickstad wrote:
The results are great for the "home team" but after thinking about it a little bit I kind of wish the Ferrari, BMW, and McClaren would've been stacked up at pit exit waiting for the green light in the order they were in. (Instead of Kimi being shunted by Hamilton).

That would've been a tremendous battle on the track.

Hey F1R. What would the protocol have been for Kubica and Kimi?

Was Kimi there first so he gets to go first?

And what about that brake dust! OMG! ;)


I just reviewed the race, and Kubica was first out of his pit and Kimi kind of bogarted (went ahead) for a moment and then drifted back and Kubica was really first but Kimi, doing a Mark Donohue "Unfair Advantage" stopped closer to the white line at the pit out. I think Kimi also was banking on the light changing just as he hit the line so he stopped pretty hard, harder than Kubica, and I think Hamilton thought the light was going to change too and since Kimi was still moving fast he followed him and was suprised when the light didn't change and Kimi slammed his brakes on. Kubica didn't think the light was going to change so he kind of made a leisurely stop short of the white line by about a foot and a half. Kimi only stopped (about six inches from the line so he was ahead of Kubica) for about a millisecond before he was hit by Hamilton. It was like a normal rear-end crash on the street when (I've never had a crash on the street myself) when someone expects someone to go and then they stop suddenly. Kubica needs to think more about the "Unfair Advantage" as that is pushing the envelope too. Kimi was taking an AU, Hamilton wasn't thinking at all (just having his fun), but Kubica was dozing there.

This review of Mark Donohue's book "The Unfair Advantage" has a few factual errors, but is worth reading and I highly recommend the book. I've had it since it was orginally published. I always liked Donohue and when I covered the Austrian GP in 1983 and went to where he crashed (Austria 1975) to look at the scene since it was a quirk that resulted in his death. A tire deflated and he went off into a big field and hit an advertising sign support, the only thing for hundreds of yards, and the post hit him in the opening of his helmet and knocked him out. Other than that he appeared unhurt, and the next moring in the pits he collapsed when an embolism (something stuck in his brain) occurred and he died after emergency brain surgery. With the death of Peter Revson in the Shadow the year before at Kyalami, American F1 ambitions were gone essentially, other than with Mario Andretti. Even Mario's F1 team, Vel's Parnelli Jones, failed at the end of the '75 F1 season. At least I went to the '75 Dutch GP and got to see Donohue in Penske's F1 car once as well as see him trounce everyone with the 917-30 at Riverside in 1973 along with taking two of the three IROC races (the first IROC) in a Porsche Carrera, the only time IROC ever used a decent car.

http://www.amx-perience.com/AmericanMotorsForum/showthread.php?t=13

"Reviews
The Unfair Advantage
-Bill McGuire

The Unfair Advantage was originally published in 1975, a bit lost in the wake of Mark Donohue's brilliant life and its sudden, shocking end.

Donohue won several Trans-Am titles, the Indy 500 in 1972 and literally destroyed the Can-Am series in 1973 with the 917 -30 turbo Porsche, a Frankenstein's monster he personally chained and mastered. Little left to win, Donohue retired from driving, but then just as abruptly un-retired to take one more challenge: leading Penske's assault on Formula One. At Austria, just two races into the 1975 season, Donohue crashed in the morning warm-up. And he was gone, just like that. Donohue's fans - everyone was a Donohue fan - were left only with their memories, and the book. They weren't enough.

Co-written with Paul Van Valkenburgh, Donohue's book was unique, and still is. It was a racing autobiography but it wasn't constructed around his life-even in his own memoir, Donohue shyly stood just outside the spotlight. The book was instead broken down into chapters devoted to his cars and the challenges in developing them: Trans-Am Camaro, McLaren M16, and so on.

So The Unfair Advantage was ostensibly a how-to book about race car preparation. At that level it was a gem, revealing how production autos and raw English kit cars became winning Penske racers. But the book's real insights were its ground level glimpses into what the racing was really like-the scene, the people, the politics-and most of all, into Donohue himself. The cars were merely his frame of reference in telling, frankly and intimately, one of the great stories in American motorsports, in one of its golden times. After his death, The Unfair Advantage disappeared from the bookstores and eventually became a collector's item, with copies selling for hundreds of dollars.

If Donohue didn't quite tell all, he told a lot. The title came from a term coined by Leon Mandel. The alleged "unfair advantage" Mark Donohue and Roger Penske brought to the track: two-story fueling rigs, brake calipers that virtually changed their own pads, any clever gimmick that gave them an edge. If they weren't exactly cheating by the letter of the rules, they were taking liberties with an unwritten code of sporting conduct. To hear some racers tell it, Penske Racing didn't play fair.

Fact is, everyone "cheated." What other teams really resented is how in every way Penske and Donohue refused to play on a level field. They refused to run the same okay equipment as everyone else and simply hope it worked. They refused to show up late, and they refused to knock off early. They refused to approach racing as a fun game played with other people's money. In fact, they refused to race with anything less than the maximum professionalism they could muster. By refusing to play fair this way, Penske Racing and Mark Donohue made life tough for everybody.

Racing technology was then the blackest of arts, with no public lore. Carroll Smith once observed that half the racers didn't want to reveal their secrets; the other half, their ignorance. Few experts were forthcoming, in either sense of the word. In The Unfair Advantage, Donohue admitted with easy, becoming openness how little he knew going in. He simply applied to racing his natural antipathy for pat answers, with great diligence. Much of the book's appeal is in simply watching the superb gearwork turning in Donohue's mind, as he sets to work identifying and solving problems.

Because his cars were so often and obviously better, the image we have now is of a talented engineer who happened to be a decent race driver.We probably have that all backward. Donohue's engineering degree from Brown equipped him basically with a handful of textbook formulas that never quite applied, and for Donohue the engineer, the learning curve was a rocky slope. But the record shows that Donohue the driver was fast from the start, quickly picking up a ride in the Ford GT program. Donohue lived in denial of his own superior abilities. It pushed him to develop superior race cars, which he then drove with extreme intelligence and nearly without error. That was Donohue's personal advantage, and to drivers of even roughly comparable skills, the results must: have seemed brutally unfair.

Donohue's sons, Michael and David, have now arranged another printing of the classic book. The new edition includes a section of color photographs, along with perceptive recollections from Donohue's contemporaries, edited by AutoWeek senior contributing editor Pete Lyons. Here is the opportunity to revisit a charmed period in American racing, and one of its most special personalities.

-Bill McGuire

The Unfair Advantage; (new edition)

Mark Donohue withPaul Van Valkenburgh Softbound, 325 pages Bentley Publishers (800) 423-4595

www.bentleypublishers.com $24.95

-----------------------------------

Read more about Mark Donohue by going to his tribute page within this site at:
http://www.amx-perience.com/MarkDonohue.htm

Info on the 1970 Mark Donohue Signature Edition Javelin is here:
http://www.amx-perience.com/1970MarkDonohueJavelin.htm

Extensive coverage of the 1968-72 Trans-Am Racing seasons. Read about Javelin's trials and triumphs in T/A racing. Special thanks to Ted Roberts, AMC Independent Trans-Am Driver of Javelin #55 in 1969, 1970, 1971, for his help in obtaining information for the Trans-Am portion of this website. http://www.amx-perience.com/Trans-AmRacing.htm"





Date: 6-10-08 10:15
From: Colin in San Francisco View user's profile
Subject: Re: I wondered about that myself . . .

Has anyone seen Hammy's latest comments?

"The rule is a bit silly," Hamilton said about not being able to leave the pitlane when the safety car and the rest of the field is passing by. "We are in the race - how can you red light at the end of the pitlane? But that's the rule and I accept it. I start 10 places back in the next race. It's a bit harsh. I didn't aim to ruin anyone's race.

"Going forward, the mood is strong. The fact is we destroyed everyone at the weekend. With the car we have right now there is no stopping us."

Amazing, this guy just doesn't stop. The 10 place grid penalty is actually the lightest penalty that can be given according to the rule book. Lewis already has the Schumacer attitude without all the wins...
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Date: 6-11-08 10:11
From: wickstad View user's profile
Subject: Re: I wondered about that myself . . .

Colin wrote:
Has anyone seen Hammy's latest comments?

"The rule is a bit silly," Hamilton said about not being able to leave the pitlane when the safety car and the rest of the field is passing by. "We are in the race - how can you red light at the end of the pitlane? But that's the rule and I accept it. I start 10 places back in the next race. It's a bit harsh. I didn't aim to ruin anyone's race.

"Going forward, the mood is strong. The fact is we destroyed everyone at the weekend. With the car we have right now there is no stopping us."

Amazing, this guy just doesn't stop. The 10 place grid penalty is actually the lightest penalty that can be given according to the rule book. Lewis already has the Schumacer attitude without all the wins...


I've been seeing these comparisons to Schumacher and I just don't get this.

From my memory Schumacher was kicking ass with inferior equipment when he first arrived in formula one. Bennetton Ford. I admit I didn't follow formula one much through the '90s. Not really sure why I lost interest.

I can say, however, that from my memory, Hamilton reminds me more of Damon Hill. Damon Hill ran great when he was out front, but was pretty conservative when it came to mixing it up. Not sure if Hamilton is conservative or just inexperienced but he definitely has problems if he's not on an open track. I mean yeah he kicked ass in qualifying and was running away with the race but you put a couple of cars in front of him and he's probably going to crash in to one of them. (cheap shot alert).

Still I don't get the Schumacher references. Maybe I'm missing something.

I have two Formula One races that I'll never tape over. In both of them Schumacher is hounding the driver in front of him. One is Jaques Villenueves first F1 win and the other is at San Marino a couple of years prior...



Date: 6-12-08 01:06
From: Colin in San Francisco View user's profile
Subject: Re: I wondered about that myself . . .

Quote:
Still I don't get the Schumacher references. Maybe I'm missing something.


Sorry my reference was more based on Hammy's attitude and less about his ability. Schumacher was certainly and extremely talented driver, but he was also tremendously arrogant and never seemed to fess up for him mistakes (or his cheating). Hammy is tremendously arrogant and doesn't take blame for things either. The difference is that Schumacer holds countless records, and, well, Hammy has a handful of wins... I think Hamilton is just what F1 doesn't need: a showy, arrogant driver who is bringing his celebrity friends to races.
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