It's a shame that it must be so lucrative to sell your soul to be a supposed rep of the people.

I don't agree....in part.

I'm ALL FOR drilling in the ANWAR and where ever else IF and only if.......it comes with a well & permanent funding sourced commitment towards the development of a sustainable and/or renewable energy source.

If we just open up more lands for drilling, we will accomplishing nothing but delaying the inevitable drop in supply.

How about longterm planning in lieu of expediency?

Jerry
_________________
Jerry Curry
Salem, OR
-------------

Haven't the oil companies been posting record profits lately?? On a similar note, does anyone know how much oil is being sold in Euros versus how much in U.S. dollars?

Oil companies told the Senate that oil should be 60 bucks a barrel but speculation in the free market (hedge funds) are artificially driving up the price.

John
_________________
"Chicken make no good house pet!"

"Less brake, more accelerator"
#1665778

Harv wrote:

Oil companies told the Senate that oil should be 60 bucks a barrel but speculation in the free market (hedge funds) are artificially driving up the price. John

i heard that as well, and an article in the wsj said oil is the "mother of all bubbles". let's hope that turns out to be true.
_________________
gwb72tii

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra

All things being equal, I would like to have one of those electric Minis.

AndyS wrote:

All things being equal, I would like to have one of those electric Minis.

and i still have a 12cyl car on my list of cars to own b4 i die
gas goes higher, maybe i can afford one
_________________
gwb72tii

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra

AndyS wrote:

All things being equal, I would like to have one of those electric Minis.

Imagine where we would be by now if that IDIOT reagan had not reversed Carter's push for solar energy thirty years ago. Its time for a SOLAR REVOLUTION! the three trillion $$$ we are spending in/on Iraq could have absolutely revolutionized our energy infrastructure and made the middle east totally irrelevant as far as our strategic interests are concerned. Remember it was our bases in saudi that provoked bin laden to attack us in the first place!

GWB, you are forgetting the new demand from china and india, which is both actually causing a surge in demand, and also feeding speculation (the bubble).

The upside of all this is less SUVs are on the road...
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robspeed wrote:

The upside of all this is less SUVs are on the road...

Good point. Let the barrel price go up!

Besides, in all honesty, I'll trade our European prices for your American prices any time of the week. Especially diesel has become so expensive freight companies are having strikes and actions all over Europe. Every time you go to a petrol station you get sodomized... without lube.
_________________
'71 2002ti
'73 3.0CSi

Keep on rolling in the free world!

all i can say is......HHO generator

my brother has one on his 86 mini,
im gonna go to the lab and start tinkering on making my own hydrogen generator.

theres nothing like HHO on demand....
u hit the gas, the alternator pushes more current, u imediatly get more hydrogen. ;)

robspeed wrote:

AndyS wrote: All things being equal, I would like to have one of those electric Minis. Imagine where we would be by now if that IDIOT reagan had not reversed Carter's push for solar energy thirty years ago. Its time for a SOLAR REVOLUTION! the three trillion $$$ we are spending in/on Iraq could have absolutely revolutionized our energy infrastructure and made the middle east totally irrelevant as far as our strategic interests are concerned. Remember it was our bases in saudi that provoked bin laden to attack us in the first place! GWB, you are forgetting the new demand from china and india, which is both actually causing a surge in demand, and also feeding speculation (the bubble). The upside of all this is less SUVs are on the road...

solar? hahahahah let all these alternative energy sources stand on their own 2 feet without subsidies and see what happens. drill in anwr and get it over with.
_________________

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BLUNT wrote:

solar? hahahahah let all these alternative energy sources stand on their own 2 feet without subsidies and see what happens. drill in anwr and get it over with.

Solar is insanely expensive at the moment. The dollar so weak the Europeans are buying all the panels and we're paying like nearly double what they cost a few years ago.

So yeah its easy to say 'solar' if you've got an extra 30 grand lying around.

My hydro setup cost under $1000 and i'm running my house off it about 1/3 the time. I'm making some changes that should boost that to 1/2 soon I hope. Need to swap out the big CRTs for LCDs that would save a lot of power - but I don't have nearly the energy demands of a normal suburb person nor do they have the water and land so its mostly a boonies solution.




http://www.jeffersonfreestate.org/hh/

BLUNT wrote:

robspeed wrote: AndyS wrote: All things being equal, I would like to have one of those electric Minis. Imagine where we would be by now if that IDIOT reagan had not reversed Carter's push for solar energy thirty years ago. Its time for a SOLAR REVOLUTION! the three trillion $$$ we are spending in/on Iraq could have absolutely revolutionized our energy infrastructure and made the middle east totally irrelevant as far as our strategic interests are concerned. Remember it was our bases in saudi that provoked bin laden to attack us in the first place! GWB, you are forgetting the new demand from china and india, which is both actually causing a surge in demand, and also feeding speculation (the bubble). The upside of all this is less SUVs are on the road... solar? hahahahah let all these alternative energy sources stand on their own 2 feet without subsidies and see what happens. drill in anwr and get it over with.

You dont realize that we are subsidizing oil with the lives and limbs and minds of our young people, not to mention the trillions of our tax dollars spent protecting our "interests" in the middle east. Also, dont forget the provocation power of our presence there for the local crazies in those parts of the woods... Think strategically, man!!!! ;)
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

actually before long the problem will have solved itself

oil supply will be increased because of high oil prices (spurs production)

more oil means higher CO2 emissions, so at least we can get consistent freaking global warming underway in the Great Pacific Northwest!!!!!!
_________________
gwb72tii

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra

robspeed wrote:

BLUNT wrote: robspeed wrote: AndyS wrote: All things being equal, I would like to have one of those electric Minis. Imagine where we would be by now if that IDIOT reagan had not reversed Carter's push for solar energy thirty years ago. Its time for a SOLAR REVOLUTION! the three trillion $$$ we are spending in/on Iraq could have absolutely revolutionized our energy infrastructure and made the middle east totally irrelevant as far as our strategic interests are concerned. Remember it was our bases in saudi that provoked bin laden to attack us in the first place! GWB, you are forgetting the new demand from china and india, which is both actually causing a surge in demand, and also feeding speculation (the bubble). The upside of all this is less SUVs are on the road... solar? hahahahah let all these alternative energy sources stand on their own 2 feet without subsidies and see what happens. drill in anwr and get it over with. You dont realize that we are subsidizing oil with the lives and limbs and minds of our young people, not to mention the trillions of our tax dollars spent protecting our "interests" in the middle east. Also, dont forget the provocation power of our presence there for the local crazies in those parts of the woods... Think strategically, man!!!! ;)

i realize more than you think rob. the fact is there is nothing thats as efficient as good old fossil fuels. im all for conserving energy and improving the planet and breaking ties with the middle east and their oil.
thats why i think we should drill in anwr, conserve where we can, continue research on hydrogen, electric etc etc. but use what we have in our own back yard and fuck the treehuggers. we have untold amounts of oil and are unable to go after it because of the environmentalists. ethanol is a joke and the thought of a functional solar car is just as bad
_________________

lowest pricing on new OE bmw parts
email me unkorama@gmail.com

BLUNT wrote:

the thought of a functional solar car is just as bad

just a sneak peek at a possible future:
http://www.teslamotors.com/


all we need is the solar infrastructure to charge the batteries:

http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/11/69528

;)
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gwb72tii wrote:

actually before long the problem will have solved itself oil supply will be increased because of high oil prices (spurs production) more oil means higher CO2 emissions, so at least we can get consistent freaking global warming underway in the Great Pacific Northwest!!!!!!

Far from it, i saw a report that gas refineries are cutting back on production due to lower demand. Higher prices=lower demand=lower production, not more!
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robspeed wrote:

gwb72tii wrote: actually before long the problem will have solved itself oil supply will be increased because of high oil prices (spurs production) more oil means higher CO2 emissions, so at least we can get consistent freaking global warming underway in the Great Pacific Northwest!!!!!! Far from it, i saw a report that gas refineries are cutting back on production due to lower demand. Higher prices=lower demand=lower production, not more!

go back to buisness school friend
why do you think there are truckers in canada making $200k/yr in the tar sand fields?
_________________
gwb72tii

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra

gwb72tii wrote:

robspeed wrote: gwb72tii wrote: actually before long the problem will have solved itself oil supply will be increased because of high oil prices (spurs production) more oil means higher CO2 emissions, so at least we can get consistent freaking global warming underway in the Great Pacific Northwest!!!!!! Far from it, i saw a report that gas refineries are cutting back on production due to lower demand. Higher prices=lower demand=lower production, not more! go back to buisness school friend why do you think there are truckers in canada making $200k/yr in the tar sand fields?

Hmmmm, I cant find the report I was referring to... damn innernet! ;-p
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's great to have you back rob

:)
_________________
gwb72tii

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra

robspeed wrote:

BLUNT wrote: the thought of a functional solar car is just as bad just a sneak peek at a possible future: http://www.teslamotors.com/ all we need is the solar infrastructure to charge the batteries: http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/11/69528 ;)

someday my kids will drive flying cars too. i was talking about viable energy sources available today that are as efficient as oil. name one
_________________

lowest pricing on new OE bmw parts
email me unkorama@gmail.com

BLUNT wrote:

robspeed wrote: BLUNT wrote: the thought of a functional solar car is just as bad just a sneak peek at a possible future: http://www.teslamotors.com/ all we need is the solar infrastructure to charge the batteries: http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/11/69528 ;) someday my kids will drive flying cars too. i was talking about viable energy sources available today that are as efficient as oil. name one

coal, no, wait, we can't use that, too damaging to dig for

natural gas, no, wait, we can't drill for that cause it's too damaging to drill for

dang, i guess we're screwed
_________________
gwb72tii

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra

BLUNT wrote:

robspeed wrote: BLUNT wrote: the thought of a functional solar car is just as bad just a sneak peek at a possible future: http://www.teslamotors.com/ all we need is the solar infrastructure to charge the batteries: http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/11/69528 ;) someday my kids will drive flying cars too. i was talking about viable energy sources available today that are as efficient as oil. name one

I'm not really talking about *today*, I'm talking about making the decision to make the strategic investments that will pay off 10, 20, 30 years down the road (so to speak). Again, you have to factor in ALL the TRUE costs of the so-called efficient oil. The Iraq war alone is going to cost us 3 trillion bucks. If you divide that up on a per-gallon basis, I think the numbers would tell a different story about how (cost) efficient oil is. And that is just a drop in the bucket compared to the total military costs of protecting our oil supplies over there, over time (not even counting lives/limbs/minds). now, go back in time and imagine if we had pursued solar technology and infrastructure as a strategic goal throughout the 80s, 90s, and the 00s. Where would we be by now, and how far ahead of the game would we be competitively compared to the Chinese, etc.? How much poorer would the terror states (and their ilk) be with us not filling their pockets with our gas money? Since we can't go back in time, imo we should think about the future goal of making ourselves as independent of oil as possible. This isnt even talking about the CLEAN factor, and the cheapness of solar once its installed and the plant is paid for. You don't have to buy fuel to power a solar power plant, it literally falls from the sky. I concede that nothing now is as chemically efficient as oil cracked into gas/diesel, but I'd like us to think a little more expansively/strategically about things...
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robspeed wrote:

BLUNT wrote: robspeed wrote: BLUNT wrote: the thought of a functional solar car is just as bad just a sneak peek at a possible future: http://www.teslamotors.com/ all we need is the solar infrastructure to charge the batteries: http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/11/69528 ;) someday my kids will drive flying cars too. i was talking about viable energy sources available today that are as efficient as oil. name one I'm not really talking about *today*, I'm talking about making the decision to make the strategic investments that will pay off 10, 20, 30 years down the road (so to speak). Again, you have to factor in ALL the TRUE costs of the so-called efficient oil. The Iraq war alone is going to cost us 3 trillion bucks. If you divide that up on a per-gallon basis, I think the numbers would tell a different story about how (cost) efficient oil is. And that is just a drop in the bucket compared to the total military costs of protecting our oil supplies over there, over time (not even counting lives/limbs/minds). now, go back in time and imagine if we had pursued solar technology and infrastructure as a strategic goal throughout the 80s, 90s, and the 00s. Where would we be by now, and how far ahead of the game would we be competitively compared to the Chinese, etc.? How much poorer would the terror states (and their ilk) be with us not filling their pockets with our gas money? Since we can't go back in time, imo we should think about the future goal of making ourselves as independent of oil as possible. This isnt even talking about the CLEAN factor, and the cheapness of solar once its installed and the plant is paid for. You don't have to buy fuel to power a solar power plant, it literally falls from the sky. I concede that nothing now is as chemically efficient as oil cracked into gas/diesel, but I'd like us to think a little more expansively/strategically about things...

agreed.. look to the future. find new sources of energy and see if you can make solar a viable option as well as wind,hydrogen etc etc. but why are you bringing iraq and the war into this? all im saying is drill in anwr and off the coast and use what we have. this will help greatly in freeing ourselves from the middle east. just because i think oil is the best, most efficient source of energy today doesnt mean im not for improving things
_________________

lowest pricing on new OE bmw parts
email me unkorama@gmail.com

gwb72tii wrote:

it's great to have you back rob :)

as Jenna would say, awwwah! ;-)



good to be back... dont know how long it will last, this free/stolen neighbornet conection comes and goes. ;-p
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BLUNT wrote:

why are you bringing iraq and the war into this?

because we all know that if Iraq didnt have oil, we wouldnt do jack shit to "save" the iraqis from their (former) saddamite leader. we just wouldnt care. so, given that the reason we are there is to capture/protect the oil supply, we have to take the costs of doing so into the calculation of how much oil truly costs us. its not just iraq, but our general involvement in the whole region. if we really only cared about the plight of oppressed people, wed be in darfur and countless other places around the globe.
_________________
-Rob S.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

robspeed wrote:

BLUNT wrote: why are you bringing iraq and the war into this? because we all know that if Iraq didnt have oil, we wouldnt do jack shit to "save" the iraqis from their (former) saddamite leader. we just wouldnt care. so, given that the reason we are there is to capture/protect the oil supply, we have to take the costs of doing so into the calculation of how much oil truly costs us. its not just iraq, but our general involvement in the whole region. if we really only cared about the plight of oppressed people, wed be in darfur and countless other places around the globe.

#1 - you're wrong imho about why were there
#2 - even if you're right, it is reality and oil in the hands of al qaeda is unthinkable
_________________
gwb72tii

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.
Yogi Berra