Instrument guage is heading right up after the car gets to temp and runs a while, Ive tried 2 intstrument clusters to be sure and they both show high, funny one shows the gas tank is full the other its empty.... Anyway and the other thing I seeing is a radiator leak somewhere (havent had time to trace it) when the car gets up to temp. Any suggestions GREATLY APPRECIATED this car has been putting me thru the ringer Im hoping this is the last "immediate issue" and I can spend some time behind the wheel soon!

If you are running hot - check timing!!!!!
Bob
_________________
The old and slow division of Skidmark Racing
aka www.Oftenlastracing.com
Retired!! I support my racing habit by working for www.apexvintage.com/

1. Make sure you're actually overheating. Use a mechanical thermometer to check coolant temp when your gauge starts heading into the red. Be VERY careful when you remove the radiator cap so you don't get scalded.

2. Test both the radiator cap and the cooling system for holding pressure. A bad cap will allow coolant to boil out; pressure testing the system will pinpoint leaks. Are you actually losing a noticeable amount of coolant?

3. Check alternator/water pump belt for tightness, especially for slip at speed.

4. Is your thermostat opening? When the engine's hot, feel the hoses on each side of the 'stat; they should be about the same temp. If the one leading from the bottom of the radiator to the stat is cold, your 'stat is sticking.

5. Check timing for correct setting.

That'll get you started. Let us know whatcha find...

mike
_________________
'69 Nevada sunroof--"Wolfgang"
'73 Sahara sunroof-- "Ludwig"
'87 eta E30 coupe--"Johannes"
+ Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette)...
and Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

The first thing to do is make sure that the motor is actually running hot. 02 temp gauges are notoriously unreliable- not the gauge necessarily, but the instrument cluster grounding, etc.

One simple approach is to bring the motor come up to temp and check the coolant temp with a thermometer. Ideally, you would use a hand held infrared thermometer to measure the outside temp of the upper tank on the radiator. If you don't have access to an infrared sensor, just stick a thermometer in the coolant at the radiator filler (being careful of pressure/hot coolant when removing the top, of course- or just leave the top off and bring the motor up to temp).

You may find that your coolant temp is normal and the gauge is wrong. If not, then the most common causes of overheating are a compromised cooling system: clogged radiator; thermostat not opening all of the way.
_________________
Chris B.
'73 ex-Malaga

Thanks for the info! I come from a aircooled background, what would you guys consider a "normal" operating temp? There is a steady drip occuring from the lower area of the radiator, I tightened the drain plug, but am not currently sure if the leak id from there. i suppose it could be a missing of torn o-ring.

The standard factory thermostat is 80 degrees C. Other temp thermos are available, but figure on 175-185 degrees F being in the healthy range. Certainly, on a hot day a pressurized cooling system can exceed 200 degrees F, but that is a bit too hot for normal driving when you have good flow through a healthy radiator.
_________________
Chris B.
'73 ex-Malaga

elementfmfl wrote:

Thanks for the info! I come from a aircooled background, what would you guys consider a "normal" operating temp? There is a steady drip occuring from the lower area of the radiator, I tightened the drain plug, but am not currently sure if the leak id from there. i suppose it could be a missing of torn o-ring.

radiator, check ALL your hoses, connections and hose clamps - if the hoses are old they could be cracked or have dried out and loosened on the tank fittings; there's also a possibility that the hose clamps have backed off a bit, or that hoses that are a couple of years old have compressed a bit leaving the clamps a bit loose. Sometimes, just the tightening the clamps will stop a leak.

If that DOESN"T take care of the leak, start looking for leaks that originate elsewhere - surface tension can take the drip from a slow leak quite a distance from the point of origin, so you may have to follow a liquid trail back to the source. If the engine is grimy with oil and dirt, it can be a huge help to get all the grunge cleaned up - makes it far easier to spot the source of any leak.

One other factor that may play into your situation - there were several different styles of cooling fans used on '02s - some early cars had 4 blade fans that don't move a whole lot of air. Depending on which fan you have installed, you might need a more effective fan (or a supplemental electric pusher fan in front of the radiator).

For reference, an '02 with a properly functioning cooling system and temperature gauge should run with the gauge needle in the middle of the blue band under most conditions - idling in traffic or pulling a steep hill (especially in very hot weather) will cause the temp to go up and the gauge to read higher, but it really shouldn't run in the red for any period of time.
_________________
Barry Allen
'69 Sunroof
'82 E21 (daily driver)
'82 633CSi (wife's driver)
'65 El Camino (yard & parts hauler)

elementfmfl wrote:

Thanks for the info! I come from a aircooled background, what would you guys consider a "normal" operating temp? There is a steady drip occuring from the lower area of the radiator, I tightened the drain plug, but am not currently sure if the leak id from there. i suppose it could be a missing of torn o-ring.

My gauge reads way too high. I went through the enitre system before I realized it was the stupid gauge. Check that first. On a normal temp day with normal driving the housing above the water pump or radiator tank both read about 165F, while the gauge was indicating 200 or so. I've seen it up in the 180 range when the weather is hot. Us a IR or (racing) brake pad temp meter (has a metal probe, what I used to check the housing temp).
_________________
Jeff

1967 1600-2 "Florida"/Brown w/sunroof - 6-volt all original 163k mi

2006 M3 White/Red - 6spd Comp Pkg

I am the previous owner of the car and can attest that it is not overheating. I too started to spend cash before I did any trouble shooting. When I wised up and bought a laser thermometer I realized that the gauge was wrong. This was communicated to Brian but I guess my word is not good enough.
Brian, do yourself a favor and either add a ground to the cluster or trace the wiring to the gauge itself. The radiator is new as is the thermostat. A new water pump was also given to you. As for the leak, I would check the hose clamps. I tightened a few but certainly could have missed one.

HTH,
Jay

Jay-

Ease Up. First off for the record, I never said a thing about "your word". I have not blamed or implied any fault with your representation, or information supplied by you in any of the posts I have made. I would not have made any issue if you had chosen to not respond to this, or had remained anonymous when you did post. I believe we both make enough enemies in our chosen professions, so there is no need to involve that kind of behavior in our Hobbies as well.


With that said I have been finding quite a bit more wrong with the car than I was let on to. Like the ski cap shoved in the pedal box just for instance.
I want this car on the road and also dont want to do any damage that I can avoid. But you did also tell me you put less thasn 100 miles on the car in the time you owned it, and according to your other posts regarding the car stating you bought it for a conversion you never got around to. So maybe there was some things you where not aware of on this car also (like the ski cap).

As far as everyone else, I appriecate your time and help, and will let everyone know where the issues lies. It never hurts to have multible opinions as it leads to more enlightenment and ultimately a better running machine. As I said above Im not looking to blame anyone just have a functional car I can enjoy for the money I have into it.
Thanks Brian

OK so at idle for 15 minutes Im showing 190 degrees. Sounds good to me, what does everyone else think? Also looks like the leak was coming from the drain plug and the hose direct to the radiator so Im hoping this is it.

after running pretty hard on a cooler day 60 degrees the thermo into the radiator says 195, sound good?

elementfmfl wrote:

after running pretty hard on a cooler day 60 degrees the thermo into the radiator says 195, sound good?

sound about right for an engine with a sound cooling system. Keep in mind that cooling systems are designed to run under pressure and that the boiling point of any coolant goes up with pressure as well - if you have a leak (whatever the cause, from a bad head gasget to a loose hose clamp), the system will never reach its design pressure, and will almost always run hot in addition to loosing coolant.

Side comment - bad gauge grounds on the back of the instrument cluster are very common on '02's. If you suspect inaccurate readings on either the gas or temp gauges (or both), or either or both gauges jump around, it's a good bet that the cluster needs to come out for a repair to the ground circuit. The proceedure has been written up several times, so a search should turn it up.
_________________
Barry Allen
'69 Sunroof
'82 E21 (daily driver)
'82 633CSi (wife's driver)
'65 El Camino (yard & parts hauler)

Barry-

thanks for the response, I did do the ground repair to the back of the cluster but still looks like the temp guage is off. I have run the car (hard) a few times now, then I race home and pop the radiator cap and drop in a professional meat thermo (I stole from my chef brother hahaha) so far I havnt seen it over 195-200. I am going to replace the water pump that was part of the deal when I purchased the car, just for peace of mind. I will post a few pics when I can the car looks so much better clean!

Bad Thermostat was the culprit, I replaced it this afternoon and the temp gauge is riding at an even 3:00 Thanks for all the helpful insight Im sure I will have somemore stupid questions along the way!

Ok so i replaced the thermo, put in the new antifreeze and the car was running perfect a hair higher than the 3:00 line I checked the fluid the radiator after a 30 miles and double checked the antifreeze to be sure it wasnt too low. I added alittle too much (up to the middle of the filler neck), I used a 50/50 mix but have to say I used 2 different (companies)jugs of antifreeze. So went for a drive today, low and behold the temp went up a bit, I have included a couple of pics to show where its at, this is not the temp that it is running at, but the temp that has been peaking out at on occasion. What do you guys think? Am I overreacting? If yes cool, if not what should be my next course of action? Thanks

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That seems way to hot to me, given the weather conditions you are stating. Before I swapped radiators to an Ingraham triple core (and it is awesome by the way), my car would run that hot on the highway here in Houston. Remember, that's when the air temp is about 100. So - 60F, no way your car should run that hot. You may need to pull it and flush it - or send it off and have it flushed well. Or - just get a new one from Curt...

With my current radiator (again - Ingraham triple core), I was driving around yesterday (90 F), and the temperature needle didn't get up past "4 o'clock".

Ken
_________________
'73 2002, Fjord - "Deuce"
'04 330i, Titanium - "Smith"

Ken-

thanks. The car has an Ireland racing radiator in there now, so Im hoping that s not the issue. I did overfill it so I am wondering if having it overful can cause it to overheat?

Overfilling will not cause overheating. All that would happen is when your radiator got to pressure, your cap would open for a bit to push some fluid out. That's not going to cause overheating.

Here's my guesses at what your problem is:

1) You've got a lot of junk in your radiator, so your total fluid capacity is less. Less fluid = less cooling.

2) You've got a blockage in the water jacket of your block. Again, poor circulation of fluid = poor cooling.

3) Bad water pump. Again - poor circulation of fluid = poor cooling.

4) Bad temp sending unit?

5) You've got a bad cap that opens at too low a pressure, and blows out some fluid. Less fluid = poor cooling.

I'd still pull the radiator and try and flush it out really well. While it was out, I'd also try and put my handy garden hose into the upper radiator hose and try to flush the block out really well. And - I might order a new temp sensor and do a swap, just to try and eliminate that as well.

Good Luck.

Ken
_________________
'73 2002, Fjord - "Deuce"
'04 330i, Titanium - "Smith"

thanks I will let you know if I find the "issue" I am probablly going to install a VDO temp gauge today and go from there

********************Update!!**********************
OK so it was a head gasket.... as well as a cracked head... and the crack was so bad SCR said it was one of the worst they have seen. So this week I replaced the gasket, did some cleaning/ tidying up while I was in there. Today I finally have everything ready to go... and cant get the car started. I have the timing marks all lined up, Jim at SCR suggested to check the timing on the dist, realligned that to the best of my abilities, I still got nothing , I cant bother the SCR crew till moday (even they need a brake from me!!)

My symptoms started as just backfiring, when the dist was realligned/replaced (Put new cap on as well), I am having just what sounds like one unified backpop actually more like a single PPPPPSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTT type of noise. The sytem turns over fine but does not start. Any help suggestions appreciated!!! This car should be in top mechanical order when this gets squared away, then I can start on the important stuff!!! And again I need to thank the guys @ SCR for the daily advice and parts hookup, moral support and not making fun of me (at least to my face, LOL) for the stupid questions! and Rob at 2002 Haus for the advice/tips and moral support as well!!!