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Thread Topic: Basic metal fab info Threaded

   
Date: 5-7-08 08:44
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Basic metal fab info

Figured some of you metalheads wondering what to do with the rust could use this information, look at it as "experience and patience, not expensive tools" determine what you can accomplish:

Here are the most basic tools to start any serious body restoration with, excluding, of course, safety equipment and a good air compressor to run the cutoff tool.



I only use SAIT brand cutoff tools, 3/8" arbor (center hole) size. There is an 1/8" thick wheel (SAIT PN 23075) I use for grinding welds, and an .035" thick
wheel (SAIT PN 23069) that is used for cutting panels off.

They are more expensive per piece than no name or cheapo cutoff wheels, but they last MUCH longer. The key is to travel left to right (or follow the way the grinder turns, most are clockwise looking at it from the handle) you will wear out wheels much slower. Also dont "bury" the wheel, just put about the lower 1/4" in.

The thinner wheel, because it takes less material out, takes less energy to run, ie, less air. It is excellent for roughing off panels quickly. IT is also good for the rare times when you need to remove a panel (to get at something behind it to repair, etc) and replace the panel because you can usually fill the gap it leaves.

The thicker wheel is also good for grinding out spot welds, its loud and annoying to use versus a spot weld drill, but its faster, cheaper and can yield excellent results with a little practice. I bet 100 or more welds can be ground with one disc, costing about $3. The key is to save wheels as they wear down, because often, you are working in a corner where a small wheel is necessary to use to avoid damaging surrounding good metal.

Here is a rocker panel lower spot welds being ground off with the thick disc:



Here is the result, just a little nugget of the original spot weld, with no grinding of the inner rocker panel, just grind the weld only, not the base metal...sorry for the bad photo...



Here is a complement of tools and random blocks of metal that were used to form this driver's side floorpan for an 02:



The most expensive tool was the die grinder, then the Snap On body hammer. This is my favorite hammer of all time, and is known as, "The My Favorite Body Hammer"

The rest of the collection is either cheaper tools or things I have bought at steel yards for scrap prices. Indispensible stuff. In fact, I used the above tools, and no others (except a sheet metal brake, which I could have not used) to form this floor pan.



Here is where the pan is going:


_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-7-08 09:10
From: brad_c-ville_VA in c-ville, VA, USA View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

thanks matt! the one thing you left off that i need...a bigger garage! i use a lot of those same tools when i attempt to do bodywork. something tells me i spend a lot more time grinding than you do though!

great info, thanks for sharing.
_________________
'68 gray 2002 pig-cheeker - '74 verona 2002 - '74 turkis 2002ti(-i) project - '97 Ford Ranger parts hauler - '06 astro black MINI Cooper




Date: 5-7-08 09:18
From: madpaddler in North Carolina View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Thanks for posting this. I know very little concerning metal finishing and fabrication, but this helps us amateurs understand a little more. Keep sending this kind of info out as it helps me get the nerve up to start fixing the little rust spots I am seeing in my 02.
_________________
'73 2002 A
2007 Toyota FJ



Date: 5-7-08 09:21
From: Tommy View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Thanks Matt. If you have effort you could also give some brief tips how to use the tools. For example how to form the groove on the pan piece or other basic shapes needed.
_________________
Racing is Life - everything before and after is just waiting!



Date: 5-7-08 09:31
From: AndyS View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Hey Matt. You getting my emails? I sent you a link to something for possible use in the Estate Wagon. No, Les. It is definitely not a touring! he he.



Date: 5-7-08 09:41
From: MikeinNC in Raleigh NC View user's profile
Subject: Great Post Matt

But I still think I need a one year apprenticeship at SCR

See you in a few weeks



Date: 5-7-08 09:49
From: AndyS View user's profile
Subject: Re: Great Post Matt

Take the "new" project up there, Mike. ask Matt for a small coner to work on it!



Date: 5-7-08 10:07
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Hey Tommy I thought I took pictures of the pan when I was driving the ribs into it-I will take and post some when I do the other side.

Basically, what I do is to clamp down the pan over a couple 1/4' thick pieces of steel. SPace the steel as far apart as you want the rib, then use a driver (my favorite is the aluminum one becuase it moves the steel better without work hardening it...) and hammer into the space you created with the steel pieces...hard to explain but easy to do..
_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-7-08 12:04
From: JohnH View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Thats fantastic Matt. I was just getting into it when it finished! Prehaps you could tell use what you use some of the less obvious tools for. For example the broken G-clamp or the the piece of plate with the large hole, or the long vise-grips with the sharp ends.
_________________
2002Tii 2751928



Date: 5-7-08 12:18
From: TobyB in Seattle View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

You left out one of the more basic,
backyard metal hatchets...

t
_________________
I have a car disease. There is no cure.
I'm not even managing the symptoms very well...


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Date: 5-7-08 12:29
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Heres how its clamped to make the circle...



Then imagine using the stick to drive the metal down into the form...
_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-7-08 12:33
From: dlmrun2002 in New York View user's profile
Subject: Nice SH*T Matt

Great info Matt.... Way to rock the Casbah. Wood is for Wussies Metal is for men !!!!

Doug M NY


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Date: 5-7-08 01:20
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

allright here is a shot of the framerail and floor being separated. The welds that hold the rail to the floor (or vice versa) have been ground almost all the way through, then chiseled very lightly to separate the floorpan, which will be scrapped. I roughed out the floorpan, well, what was left along the rail just to gain access.



For reference, this pic was taken peeking over the driver's side rocker panel just under the lower door hinge looking inward to the framerail.
_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-7-08 01:54
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Here is a shot of grinding the mig weld at the front of the framerail...I attacked it straight in, but not cutting into the framerail flange. Keep the tool at somewhat of an angle to keep a good contact area and to prevent gouging in too far...



Here is the rail with the floor pan removed.



Amazingly enough, on this car the ziebart treatment seems to have worked as the framerail is totally solid, and this is the driver's side which also had to face up to leaky brake master cylinders and all teh evils that brake fluid can do to paint. For all you dry climate guys, ziebart was a company that "rustproofed" cars in the rust belt-and generally though a good idea, the execution was far from perfect more than likely due to the low skill and/or lazy people actually doing the work.
_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-7-08 02:16
From: bmw1602.com in Los Angeles View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

nice post........but easily the most used tool in my restoration...by far is my harbor freight 4 1/2 " grinder......using the wire brush, cutoff wheel and grinding disk.

I bought 2 of them when they were on sale for $12.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91223



_________________
68' 1602
98' ///M3 Sedan

88' ///M3 Sold *
06' ///M3 Competition Pkg Sold *

http://www.bmw1602.com/





Date: 5-7-08 03:09
From: jerry View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

another exceptional 'how-to' post. this one's being pasted into Word, edited, printed and stored with your other great posts on Shock Tower repair, Pig Cheek Fabrication and Sun Roof Transplant.

These posts are truely FAQ-Section worthy

thanks for sharing...

gonna need a bigger binder



Date: 5-7-08 06:45
From: visionaut in Denver, Colorado View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Matt,

Thanks for the great post(s). They're very informative/educational. But you left off THE most important critical tool/factor - a metalsmith, master-craftsman such as yourself. What you're doing is more than engineering, it's art. The skills/experience should never be underestimated.

I've seen many examples of what you can do with custom and restored sheetmetal, and your intimate knowledge of the 02, and it's awesome. (Wish I lived nearby).

Kudos,
Tom
_________________
I'll drive... ;-)

v i s i o n a u t i k s




Date: 5-8-08 02:09
From: Tommy View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Yep, I thought about something like that.
This kind of posts are very much appreciated. Especially to see what can be done without expensive special tools. And a picture tells more always.

Tommy
_________________
Racing is Life - everything before and after is just waiting!



Date: 5-8-08 05:47
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Thanks for the compliments, but dont underestimate the value of just getting some tin and some basic tools and doing some work. I had a fairly good teacher on this stuff, but most of what I learned was through practice. Sometimes the hardest part is breaking free of the inertia of life and getting to work!

I am not really one of those people to whom this stuff comes naturally...its all practice, and I never knew I could or could not make a pig cheek until I actually tried it!



_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-8-08 09:10
From: beast02er in B'Ham View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Matt,

Looks like you are fixing quite a rusty car there (along with making custom hood/front?)

Anyway, I am going to check out a Lotus Cortina on the 17th that I think is quite rusty, but without engine and trans, I think I can buy it for under $1000, which is very tempting to me.

Anyway, I may seek some rustoration advice from you with pics once I see it, find out if it is doable.

Do you custom make replacement metal for areas that you cut out, rather than buy replacement sheet metal?


Thanks,

Bryan
red73



Date: 5-8-08 10:41
From: Harv in Willoughby Oh. View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Matt,
Is this going to be a step nose o2alaSprintGT?
See ya at the V@V
John


_________________
"Chicken make no good house pet!"

"Less brake, more accelerator"
#1665778




Date: 5-8-08 10:46
From: visionaut in Denver, Colorado View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

mattmcginn wrote:



Holy crap - you even formed the roundel into the sheetmetal?!!! 8-)
Matt, it may have taken practice, but you're amazing...

Tom
_________________
I'll drive... ;-)

v i s i o n a u t i k s




Date: 5-9-08 03:30
From: canadamatt in canada, eh? View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

Great post Matt!!! Like you indicated, its all practice, just get out and try it. Now, lets see a "how to make a pig cheek" thread :). hahahaha.

In all seriousness though, any books or sites you would recommend for more advanced metalfab work? I lurk on places like metalshapers.com, but unfortunately I can't find anyone local to help me out... I learnt most of my metal/body/paint "skills" (and I use that term loosely) from simply watching a pro do his thing..

Matt



Date: 5-9-08 05:09
From: HarryPR in Puerto Rico View user's profile
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

One of the best posts ever!

I've been wanting to get my hands dirty doing bodywork ever since I helped out with my '02's restoration back in '92 (I only did some sanding and spot weld removal back then). Can't do it in the house I currently live at, though. The neighbors would have me killed.
_________________
HarryPR
BMWCCA #19290







Date: 5-9-08 05:20
From: Ian in Rochester, NY View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Re: Basic metal fab info

I've learned a great deal at www.metalmeet.com/forum/index.php. In addition to great on-line expertise, they have regional and national MetalMeet events, where you can go and either learn the basics or bring along a more advanced project. I went to a meet last year (www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6970&page=3) and learned to shrink metal by hand, and made 1/4 of a basketball out of 18 ga sheet metal. While not impressive in and of itself, I did learn to tuck shrink sheetmetal and how to use an english wheel, and am now using my rudimentary skills on my 2002. Not bad for free, and I made a bunch of new friends!
Ian
'76 M2



Date: 5-9-08 06:37
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: Yup those are great sites

I lurk a lot on metal meet, obviously even though the canvas on which a lot of the work is done is different, the techniques for metal shaping are the same!






_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-9-08 06:55
From: mattmcginn in West Hartford CT View user's profile Send e-mail
Subject: It will look like a later car!

post step nose...(when its done, this car is a GIGANTIC amount of work) but its pretty low...




_________________
Matt McGinn
Sports Car Restoration
www.sports-car-restoration.com
1974 2002 turbo 4290909, resto project, looking for parts
89 M50'd e30
72 Alfa GT Veloce
84 M491 911
68 1600 channeled and flared project
70 2002 flared car project



Date: 5-9-08 01:04
From: HarryPR in Puerto Rico View user's profile
Subject: Re: It will look like a later car!

Is that the channeled car? How much did you take off?
_________________
HarryPR
BMWCCA #19290







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