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Date: 12-30-06 11:53
From: AlCanuck in Surrey, BC, Canada 
Subject: Personal Attacks Forum.  
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Hello all,
Does anyone remember the FAQ BEFORE this forum was added? Back in the day when we used to discuss things like Hugo, and Stella? When people would regularly post things like "having a baby", or "getting married", etc? I still remember when the biggest threads had something to do with Oktoberfest, or "02 Fest Wherever", and people would gather at all points, and join convoys to attend these fests. Am I the only one who remembers those days, or more importantly, misses them? I doubt it.
So, where did we go wrong as a group? When did it all go so sideways? When did my beloved FAQ take such a shit? Well, much like diagnosing a mechanical problem, after doing a bunch of work, we need to ask ourselves "what was the last thing we did that could have caused this"?
In this case, it all started around the beginning of the "carpet wars", or so I think. We need to look at some of the early flame wars, and notice the participants. Now obviously, I was a rather large part of those wars, and for that, I feel a good amount of shame. Those that remember me before those days, know that's ot really my nature. I was just angry, and for that, I apologise. It's been a while now, but I've finally composed myself enough to stop the nasty, name calling and swearing. You won't see or hear that from me anymore. Not saying I won't become involved in debate, but I'm going to keep it clean.
In addition, there were several other people who got dragged down into this, that were never "flame war people" in the past. There is really only 1 person who is a regular contributor to this section, that has an entire FAQ history of violence. That person has been confrontational, and nasty since damn near the day they joined the forum, even going so far as to admit being a troublemaker. Basically, we're letting an entire community go to hell, so we can appease one person's twisted "flame war fetish". Doesn't make any sense to me.
Sure, we can all say "just ignore it, don't reply, blah blah blah". But let's face the facts, that doesn't really work, and we've proven it time and time again.
So, what do we do? I say we kill the personal attacks forum, the FAQ doesn't need it, or want it. If the nastiness lingers into the other forums, cut the rest of the disease out. I know it's a no ban policy here, but does anyone remember Elliot? I do. We banned him, didn't we? Why? He was the "thing that changed", and dragged this place into the mud. Now, without him, we have another one. We banned someone before, might be time to do it again?
Oh, and in case anyone forgot, I am no longer selling upholstered goods to this community, and have NO financial interest in who, or what gets banned. This is simply my opinion, and my idea to clean this great site up, and get us a little closer to the way it used to be around here.
Al
_________________
67 1600
77 630csi
81 323i
68 VW Bug
06 Volvo V50
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Date: 12-30-06 12:04
From: AlCanuck in Surrey, BC, Canada
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| esty wrote: | sucking up when you're down and out is one of your virtues larson...what is this the 11th time you're given this speech in the past year?
give us a break |
Esty, I'm hardly down or out at all?!?! I'm just sick to death of the crap, and the flamewars. I never got involved in this nonsense until you came on the scene. In fact, we didn't really have any flamewars at all, until you came on the scene.
Having fun over at Bimmerforums these days? I see they were sick of dealing with you too, eh?
Al _________________ 67 1600
77 630csi
81 323i
68 VW Bug
06 Volvo V50
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Date: 12-30-06 12:44
From: AlCanuck in Surrey, BC, Canada
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| esty wrote: | | AlCanuck wrote: | Esty, I'm hardly down or out at all?!?! I'm just sick to death of the crap, and the flamewars. I never got involved in this nonsense until you came on the scene. In fact, we didn't really have any flamewars at all, until you came on the scene.
Having fun over at Bimmerforums these days? I see they were sick of dealing with you too, eh?
Al |
take a count of the threads started in this forum...and those in the general that were moved here and take note of who started them...how many flame threads did i start?...
bimmerforums...i'm in the toilet because i refused to remove the link to my blog...it won't happen, not as long as links are allowed to be posted anyone and everyone else...don't you have a link in your sig? |
EVERY TIME you post, whether in here, or in another forum, it is a flame attack. Simply by having a link to your blog. And judging by the nearly 3000 posts you have here, that's a LOT of flames, don't you think? I'm no longer asking you to take it down, our war is done. Now I'm asking Steve to ban you.
That's not why you're in the toilet at Bimmerforums, at least not the only reason. I offered to sell some leftover headliner vinyl to a guy, which was from my private stock, leftover from doing my own personal 323i headliner, and you posted a HUGE - WARNING WARNING link in your post. Totally uncalled for, and innapropriate. A complaint was lodged, admin took a look at your history, and canned you. Pretty simple, you're a trouble maker.
And no, I don't have a link in my sig over there, never have. In fact, I have no sig at all.
Al _________________ 67 1600
77 630csi
81 323i
68 VW Bug
06 Volvo V50
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Date: 12-30-06 01:00
From: AlCanuck in Surrey, BC, Canada
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| esty wrote: | | AlCanuck wrote: | I'm asking Steve to ban you.
Al |
to be fair then larson, i suppose you and some of your pals will be going with me? |
No, not the plan. Re read what I posted about this place being quiet, and pleasant BEFORE you got here. My history here is one of peace, at least until 2006. Once you're gone, there won't be a negative peep from me again.
YOU are the problem here, sorry.
Just an aside, but many months ago, when all this was starting, I actually asked Steve to ban me. I didn't want to be a part of it anymore, but it wasn't as simple as ignoring it. I asked him to ban me, and my IP addy, but he wouldn't.
Al _________________ 67 1600
77 630csi
81 323i
68 VW Bug
06 Volvo V50
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Date: 12-30-06 02:58
From: BLUNT in Wayzata,Minnesota, gods country 
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| esty wrote: | | AlCanuck wrote: | Esty, I'm hardly down or out at all?!?! I'm just sick to death of the crap, and the flamewars. I never got involved in this nonsense until you came on the scene. In fact, we didn't really have any flamewars at all, until you came on the scene.
Having fun over at Bimmerforums these days? I see they were sick of dealing with you too, eh?
Al |
take a count of the threads started in this forum...and those in the general that were moved here and take note of who started them...how many flame threads did i start?...
bimmerforums...i'm in the toilet because i refused to remove the link to my blog...it won't happen, not as long as links are allowed to be posted anyone and everyone else...don't you have a link in your sig? |
oh oh!! did you get banned at bimmerforums??? ive been banned a bunch of times from there. does that mean twice as much esty on the FAQ now?
for the record, i love the personal attack forums when its done right. im a sarcastic mofo and it is possible to attack people and make it funny. im not so big on insulting unless it makes me smile _________________  
lowest pricing on new OE bmw parts
email me unkorama@gmail.com
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Date: 12-30-06 04:19
From: esty
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| BLUNT wrote: | oh oh!! did you get banned at bimmerforums??? ive been banned a bunch of times from there. does that mean twice as much esty on the FAQ now?
for the record, i love the personal attack forums when its done right. im a sarcastic mofo and it is possible to attack people and make it funny. im not so big on insulting unless it makes me smile |
yes sir...i got suspended...(a notch in my high heel)...you know the bad thing about admin monkeying with threads and posts, deleting them, etc is that anyone can claim anything they want after they're gone from sight. just like larson did here...i got ban'd because of my blog...
larson offered some headliner materials (which he earlier said he was out of) and as i'll always do, if i see it, i posted a link to my blog to warn anyone that is unaware of his duplicitous tactics
you still ban'd from bimmerforums mr? _________________ 
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Date: 12-30-06 07:39
From: gwb72tii in the great PNW
Subject: Al, I for one am on your side in this
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The trouble is the link to her blog, which is a personal attack 24/360, which is so petty its absurd. That was the point I made below in a previous post.
I originally voted to not ban the PEST, now I've changed my mind. This forum which was once a place where you could voice an opinion has now become a stage for idiots like the PEST. That ultimately is where this forum is headed.
And Steve, I know you read all this, and it is truly too bad that the PEST came along. You have a decision to make about preserving the forum for what it is intended to be, or to allow any and all things to be said with no recourse.
Nothing like any of this would take place in person cause it would end with someone with a broken nose, being bitch-slapped, or worse. Being able to be behind a computer keyboard enables a lot of people to think they're really courageous and righteous, where in fact its beyond the pale, and they are really cowards hiding behind their computer where there is no recourse.
Esty has proven herself over and over and over and over again to be the vindictive little minded pinhead she is. Is she going to change? I doubt it, but if she removed the link to her personal attack blog it would help a lot.
and no, esty, having a permanent link to your attack blog is not the same as someone having a link to their own website or business. Worlds of difference no matter how you spin it.
So Steve, either you have a censorship rule of somesort which you probably don't have time for, or you ban pinheads like esty and her evil twins when they come along. The price for not doing anything is FAQ becoming a second rate blog about our great little cars that will dwindle to nothing eventually.
Your choice.
IMHO
and notice esty, no swear words. try it sometime.
_________________
gwb72tii
Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910)
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Date: 12-30-06 11:07
From: jwcurry in Salem, OR
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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She's not going to be banned fellows.......you might want to drop that fantasy.
But I will tell you what I do think (p)est has cost herself (and actually, myself too). I totally agree she's been a divisive person on the FAQ and that she's disrespected the entire community by continuing to comment on threads even when asked to cease & also continuing to bring up old topics & issues.
I don't think I'm the only one that thinks this way, but as for my own feelings and actions.......she's essentially a non-entity (02-wise) to me. Sure, I may have replied to her rants and comments.....but.......
1) I would never sell/give her a part from my stash, no matter how many I have. I would never purchase/obtain a part from her....even though I wanted one of the antennas she was selling.
2) I would never give her a hand if she was driving by my domicile and broke down (although I would call a tow truck and wait for it to arrive....that is, ensure another person's safety). My door is not, open to her.
3) I don't read her threads or her comments on the main board even though I've noted that she does try to be helpful.
If enough people feel this way, you better believe her actions have ramifications and have cost her. In fact, other peoples actions have probably cost them as well.
I'm choosing who I want to associate with 02-wise and there's a cost to me for doing this as well.
Seriously, I think this is my last word on the subject. I don't know what else I can say or what else I can do.
Jerry
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Jerry Curry
Salem, OR
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Date: 12-31-06 11:07
From: esty
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| schnell540 wrote: | nice, unique interior
Serious. Look at her profile, her posts, the amount of time she spends here and on the other forum. What does that add to? Someone you hate or pitty? |
merely looking at the amount of time i spend here says nothing about how much i do or don't contribute or what i add to the forum...
if you want to get it right and display some credibility in your statement, do the math....
a good comparison might be compare my additions to the forum vs my off topic...the results might interest you.......and others
to hypothesize a negative about someone is ignorant...unless you can support your claims, you're just posting trash that has no BIF
for example...when i say larson has a history of poor performance, i provide links to facts in support of that remark _________________
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Date: 12-31-06 02:03
From: AlCanuck in Surrey, BC, Canada
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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You're right Josh, I never looked at it that way before. I was actually talking about the whole thing with a customer of mine last week, and he said the same thing, or something similar. He's a religious man, and said something along the lines of "Hopefully god will take care of her, and steer her life back in the right direction". Something like that. It was a good point anyway.
My mom would likely tell me that she is "more to be pittied than laughed at".
Esty, I'm sorry we've been so mean to you, clearly you have a mental health issue, and that should be taken care of. I'm sure my antagonistic ways have done nothing to help you out, and for that, I am sorry. Please, seek help. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Al
_________________
67 1600
77 630csi
81 323i
68 VW Bug
06 Volvo V50
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Date: 12-31-06 02:11
From: Pinepig in Citrus Heights, CA
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| AlCanuck wrote: | If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Al |
How about the both of you shut the fuck up. :-)
Can I get an Amen bretheren. _________________ Charlie Mac in Sacramento.
My Blog
I'm an كافر
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Date: 12-31-06 02:15
From: AlCanuck in Surrey, BC, Canada
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| Pinepig wrote: | | AlCanuck wrote: | If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Al |
How about the both of you shut the fuck up. :-)
Can I get an Amen bretheren. |
Here Esty, I'll write your response for you, so you can focus on getting better.
"mr pig you dont havew to read it if you dotn want to, just go away ypu have that choice in this coutntry. pLease look at the number of posts on teese train wreck threads, compared to actually threads oin the main board. Huuuman nature tells us we all all love to loosk at disaster, which is why i'm a troublemaker, and why steveio and robbieson have not banned me. i'm entertainment value, and larson sucks."
That is about as close to Estyspeak as I can get. Hope it's accurate.
Al _________________ 67 1600
77 630csi
81 323i
68 VW Bug
06 Volvo V50
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Date: 12-31-06 07:08
From: AlCanuck in Surrey, BC, Canada
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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| esty wrote: | | AlCanuck wrote: | my resolution for 07 is to STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS.
Al |
good choice, perhaps you'll lose one or more of those chins and some of that tub you wear around the middle |
Well, it's still 06(at least where I am), so I can feed a troll for a while longer longer.
You have no clue of what you speak. If you're really soooo obsessed with my physical appearance, I'll give you a couple specs to chew on. 17" arms, 26" thighs, and 36" waist. Do I sport a 6 pack abdomen? Nope, sadly I enjoy good ale, and tasty food a little too much for that. Hardly a tub however.
Happy New Years Esty,
Al _________________ 67 1600
77 630csi
81 323i
68 VW Bug
06 Volvo V50
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Date: 1-2-07 07:00
From: Biscuit3 in Sydney, Australia
Subject: Re: Personal Attacks Forum.
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What I am about to say was brought forth to my by a nice young man. You all might know him - his name is Keith and he has a car named Stella. Keith resently sent me some files of previous personal attacks directed at him, one from whom, actually posted a few replies on this very thread (and yes, I finally found out who threatened to crush his car). Keith knows more people from the 2002 community that I and probably most of you, can ever hope to meet and/or associate with. I agree with all of you as well as him when I say, this forum is useless now. I registered back in May, 2006 and since then, alot has changed. I've learned alot about my car as well as other cars in the 02er family and I've enjoyed that. I never regret any time I've spent on here, any emails I've received, or any threads I have created.
But some of you, those of which seem to have your faces stitched to your ass, don't think about other people, let alone the one person who counts. The one person who spends his time and hard earned money to fund and create this forum - Steve K. Do you honestly think that threads like these, and believe me, they are getting quite common these days, will make the other people which you have a problem with see the light? Think of it this way, these certain "Can't We All Get Along?" threads are just like your wife's thrush treatment. Sure, it takes away the pain and covers up the symptoms for a TEMPORARY amount of time, but it doesn't cure or in this case, solve anything? No, it makes the problem come back stronger and soon creates a super thrush that can't be cured (and yes, that is true on both accounts).
Some of you love to spark up Esty by constantly showing pictures of her car and/or interior. Do you know how many times we've seen it? Do you know how many times people critise it? I'm not saying I like it or what not, but get something else to bring up. It gets old, just like the same people always starting a fight and boosting up Steve K.'s bandwidth bill because we all "Can't Get Along".
For one, I'm glad to be out of this hellhole section. You guys keep asking Steve K. or the other moderators to solve all the problems by banning or deleting or flagging posts. What's the gonna do? Creates more work for him which was so goddammed easy for all of you to take care of in the first place. Why should it be his problem? You all should think about it. At first it was funny and I loved it, but now it's just stupid and immature. Why not try another hobby like, oh, I don't know, getting a job? _________________ "It's what you feel, not what you ought to. Reasonable and sensible."
'75 Golf Yellow Automatic 2002 with Weber 32/36 DGAV - "Karl"
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Date: 1-2-07 04:23
From: BigDog in Sammamish, WA
Subject: Finally a place to post the poll.....
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How many of you think Esty is really Elliot after his sex change operation was finished?
I'm going to have to say, I haven't seen the flames and general psychotic behaviour around this place since elliot vanished and she came on the scene. There's one in every group.
Of course, some people do tend to provoke the psychosis, myself included, but still...
Now true, she's got a car, and done some distastefull things to it, but sometimes she's had an experience that's worth a post. However, the signal to noise ratio is way out of whack. Besides, I see no unique value offered except for those who want to jury-rig some altenrative solution to a problem that is easily addressed with reasonably priced, readily available new or used factory parts...
Then there's that Blog link, geeez, talk about nuerotic.
Personally, I wouldn't miss her.
Just my $.02
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BigDog
'76 2002
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Date: 12-15-07 05:11
From: robspeed in INDIANAHHH!!!! =D
Subject: Re: Finally a place to post the poll.....
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| BigDog wrote: | How many of you think Esty is really Elliot after his sex change operation was finished?
I'm going to have to say, I haven't seen the flames and general psychotic behaviour around this place since elliot vanished and she came on the scene. There's one in every group.
Of course, some people do tend to provoke the psychosis, myself included, but still...
Now true, she's got a car, and done some distastefull things to it, but sometimes she's had an experience that's worth a post. However, the signal to noise ratio is way out of whack. Besides, I see no unique value offered except for those who want to jury-rig some altenrative solution to a problem that is easily addressed with reasonably priced, readily available new or used factory parts...
Then there's that Blog link, geeez, talk about nuerotic.
Personally, I wouldn't miss her.
Just my $.02
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BigDog
'76 2002 |
haha! actually elliot was never banned. he just ... well i dont know what happened. he stopped stalking me after jenna's accident, i guess he figured i had other things to worry about. in any case he and i now regularly talk in the #e39 chat room, its all good.
esty is a freakshow on wheels, we all know that. her credibility on any matter is matched by this forum's unofficial title: the toilet. she's right, she did inspire it. that she is PROUD of this fact belies how freakishly "off" she is. normally i ignore her unless she is posting in a normal part-of-the-social-fabric manner in a general thread...
steve's philosophy on banning and deleting threads is, people need to be responsible for what they post. if you act like an ass, you are an ass, and there it is for everyone to see what an ass you are. that anyone is proud of this assery, is just more collossal stupidity. its unfortunate that the byproduct of this is that the board is occasionally messy. but freedom (no censorship) is messy as many have observed before...
its a shame to have lost keith but keith is findable on bimmerforums if anyone wants to partake, so there really is no loss. the FAQ doesnt have to be the be-all of 02 onlinery necessarily. now if he went back to assfly... then id be hurt.. ;-p
personally i like the way some other sites are run to keep the garbage off the boards, but there is a slippery slope and steve's way is more in line with the free-ranging spirit of the internet itself. anyways it seems to work, as we are pretty good (all of us) at calling people on the carpet (so to speak! :P) when they step out of line. esty is just an old dog who cant seem to learn. like someone said its either pitiful or laughable. no system is perfect but this way is more like a living organism that might get a nasty bruise, but heals up on its own if you follow me... _________________ - Rob S.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! www.jennaishealed.org !!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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